If You Take... - Writers Forum

S1E9A8N5 · 08-03-2007, 09:55 AM

I'm doing an exercise to write faster. It has you using an existing plot but changing the characters, places, and events. My question is:

If you take an existing plot of a novel, change the characters, places, and events, how is it you are using the same plot when everything is different?

buddy lee · 08-03-2007, 10:10 AM

A plot leads from point A to point B. I guess it doesn't matter what happens in the middle as long as you still get from A to B?

sixlivesdown · 08-03-2007, 10:56 AM

If you're changing all of that, it's not the same plot. If you changed the characters and place, it could be the same plot, but plots are made up of events.

BlackWolf · 08-03-2007, 11:01 AM

I don't know about that. David Eddings changed the places and events but kept the same plot. Still does.

sixlivesdown · 08-03-2007, 11:53 AM

Depends how basic the plot is. If the plot is "a group of heroes save the world", then yeah, I guess it works. Much more complex, and it won't work. But I do see what you mean.

fjf1329 · 08-03-2007, 12:56 PM

Literary experts say there are only seven basic plots. Some of the are
man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. supernatural. They also say the one master plot is "conflict." Therefore all plots must be variations, compounding, and changes of charater, circumstance, location and time etc to create a different STORY, while the PLOT remains the same.

astralis · 08-03-2007, 01:30 PM

True. There are no new stories, just different ways to tell the same stories.

Someone recently posted a scene about a man and wife committing adultery. It's in the telling of the story that makes it compelling and gives it meaning.

The changes your characters go through through their own decisions is what will provide meaning to your readers as they go through the plot and into the last act's final climax that should reveal your story's meaning.

Patrick Beverley · 08-03-2007, 02:58 PM

The 1998 American film of Great Expectations, with Ethan Hawke and Gwyneth Paltrow, does this: nearly everything is changed, yet still recognisable from Dickens' original novel. So too does West Side Story (from Romeo and Juliet).

Rob · 08-04-2007, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjf1329

Literary experts say there are only seven basic plots. Some of the are
man vs. man, man vs. nature, man vs. supernatural. They also say the one master plot is "conflict." Therefore all plots must be variations, compounding, and changes of charater, circumstance, location and time etc to create a different STORY, while the PLOT remains the same.

Do you have any quotes where literary experts have said that master plot is conflict or that the basic plots are man vs man, man vs nature etc?

What you describe are types of conflict rather than plot. If you equate conflict and plot then you could argue that they're types of plot, but it's not something that is typically done when discussing plot as far as I'm aware.

Whether a plot remains the same or is different when things are changed really depends on the granularity of the discussion. If you're talking about basic plots and categorising stories at that level, then you can make a case for many stories sharing the same plot (or plot type). If you're down in the details, you can make a case for them being different.

I think first you need some definitions so that we all mean the same thing when we talk about plot.

Cheers,
Rob

Mike C · 08-04-2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

Do you have any quotes where literary experts have said that master plot is conflict or that the basic plots are man vs man, man vs nature etc?

Actually I don't think experts ever say it, just people trying to sound knowledgeable on forums.

I myself have been seeking the mythical 8th plot these last 12 months.

Mike C · 08-04-2007, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

I think first you need some definitions

Sex and death; that's all anyone needs. Man's only motivations are sex and death, so that's what all stories are about.

Rob · 08-04-2007, 05:21 AM

blackthorn · 08-04-2007, 11:25 AM

A plot is a problem that the characters are confronted with to overcome. It's the whole reason for the story. The characters and places can be changed, but the plot can still stay the same.

Rob · 08-04-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthorn

A plot is a problem that the characters are confronted with to overcome. It's the whole reason for the story. The characters and places can be changed, but the plot can still stay the same.

What you describe sounds more like the story goal than the plot.

Cheers,
Rob

lin · 08-04-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

A plot is a problem that the characters are confronted with to overcome.

The plot may grow out of that problem, but to say it IS the problem is like saying a love affair is an introduction of two people.

AND, the whole "problem" concept is only one theory, only fits certain plots.

The plot is the storyline, the shape of events that proceed to a conclusion. That simple.

So taking a plot and changing the characters and such is not mysterious. It's like changing the accessories and bodywork on a Camaro. At the end of the job, it's still a Camaro. Seven Samurai and Magnificent Seven are very, very different films. But it's the same story.