Chris Stevenson

Make two books out of it, hook the end of the first book to lead into the next. If the agent likes the first stand-alone, then is the time to tell him that the original book ran much longer but had to be halved for economy. From there on, it's dumped in the agent's lap--let him worry about it. Same with a publisher.

220,000 words is too long for a first novel. Economics is the reason--not the rejection of great art.

Chris

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lin

That is just crazy. Just on the off chance that any new writer will read that and not see it as being some kind of weird brain-fart, let me tell you IGNORE THAT COMMENT.

Insane comment for sooooo many reasons. Just to name one....so if you just keep typing and adding more words you are getting more talented as you go along???

It's a stupid remark and needs to be deleted.

lin

This runs a close second for nitwit remarks a writer should ignore. What IS IT with this thread? Where are these maniacs coming up with this crap?

HarryG

Nitwit, crap,brain fart? SHOUTING? It's hard to say anything in reply. Anything sensible, that is, and I'm not prepared to drop down to that level of writing, are you sick or something?

Mike C

Sorry Harry, usually I respect your opinion but your assertion that more words=more talent was pretty dumb - I'm with Lin on this one.

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Chris Stevenson

Then let me re-phrase that. It would be very simple to cleave this manuscript into two books, provided nothing serious (like the major plot thread) was not left hanging indicating an obvious sequel. A first stand-alone book. If an agent or publisher accepted this first book, then would be the time to tell them that it had a sequel. "Dumped" was the wrong word. But who else would know better how to market this book with its sequel other than an agent or a publisher? That's all I'm saying. I've seen exceptions, including my own agent's opinion that 150,000 is about the absolute threshold. There are extreme exceptions, I'll grant you that. But the odds are pretty shaky that it will be considered at that length.

Chris

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HarryG

I remember a teacher saying to me, many years ago, 'You,ve always got to have the last word, Harry.'


I replied, 'Yes, Miss'.


It's a failing. The average novel is indeed between 80 and 120,000 words long.


It's just that my bookshelf is full of exceptions, silly me. Most of them are over 200,000 words, Mailer, Vidal, Koontz, Rowling et al.


I was friendly with an editor some years ago who had just received a submission from a newly signed author of some 760,000 words, a first submission. The author was a well-known public figure, a feisty lady who adamantly refused to cut the MSS length, at least until it nearly came to court proceedings, and it was finally halved and the monster volume achieved decent sales. The next book bombed and the publishers did not renew the lady's contract. (She did find a new publisher for a 'tell tales out of school' book, which became a best-seller and lost her most of her friends).


Nuff said, a new author would be much better to stick with the accepted novel length (unless they're a genius).

Charlie_Eleanor

This is what I would suggest, just to be on the safe side go ahead and try splitting you book up into two novels. There is no reason you can't conjoin it later. When you write your query letter advise that there is a sequel to the book and it is possible to join the books together.

I am not sure what people will accept, and what they won't, but if you can split the book up into two books then you will not have to sacrifice content, and instead of just publishing one book you will have published two.

Good luck!!!

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Himani

I admit I haven't got much experience with literary agents or the novel industry, but can't it be sent out with 220k words or whatever and if continuously rejected, THEN cut down?

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HarryG

I believe the modern way to submit sample material to literary agents is to submit something like the first 50 pages, along with a synopsis and CV by way of multiple submissions to around five agents at a time. Your synopsis will inform the agent of the length of your manuscript.

Truth-Teller

You mean the first 3 pages, not 50.

DavidGil

You mean the first 3 chapters, not fifty.

Learn to not be an ass or get your info correct first before posting.

(I think it's 3 chapters or so but its damned sure more accurate than that.)

sixlivesdown

It's whatever the agent says. On my excel spreadsheet right now, I see agents asking for first three pages, five pages, ten pages, and fifty pages, asking for first chapter, first three chapters.

Do what the agent wants. Read their submission guidelines.

And not all agents want a synopsis. All agents want a query letter.

DavidGil

Hmm right, didn't know he could actually be correct with that Six. I was just going off what I've heard is common place. (not from here though.) Figured he was just spouting incorrect information for spouting's sake like normal.

Anyways, I was meaning that's what I thought the majority wanted. Not every publisher. But indeed, you can't go far wrong by following the guidelines of who you submit to.

lin

You COULD. But why waste your time and money, the agent's time and patience...and groom a bunch of agents to see you as a flake? I'm serious. This just does not make professional sense.

I suppose you could query a bunch of agents about a 200,000 word novel and see what sort of response you get.