The 190 Page Novel - Writers Forum

Neo · 07-04-2007, 01:41 PM

Is there any reason why so many novels are around 180 - 192 pages long? I mean, there really are a huge amount of books out there in exactly that page range.

Hobbes · 07-04-2007, 02:23 PM

It's the 50,000 word mark after formatting.

cacafire · 07-04-2007, 02:25 PM

That's just the standard fare I guess. Though, if a book is so large it's intimidating, you might have a hard time publishing it if you are a first time author. Or so I've heard. That amount of pages is perfectly convienient, so i'll take it.

But more importantly, why should you care? Stories dictate their own length, and it would be disaster to water it down with fuzz, or to jerk it around with breaks in the flow and deletions.

But MORE importantly, why are you such a matrix fanboy? 2000 was so seven years ago, man. Get with the times, seriously...

jesterscourt · 07-04-2007, 02:45 PM

I think part of the problem is in actually marketing the book itself. It's too damn long to be a short story published in an anthology or a magazine, and it's too short to look right on a bookshelf. And I agree, it sucks, some great books have been written that length, but it seems like novels should fall somewhere around 225-250 pages or more, doesn't it? Perhaps combining the novella with related short stories or another work of similar length would alleviate the problem?

Neo · 07-04-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cacafire

That's just the standard fare I guess. Though, if a book is so large it's intimidating, you might have a hard time publishing it if you are a first time author. Or so I've heard. That amount of pages is perfectly convienient, so i'll take it.

But more importantly, why should you care? Stories dictate their own length, and it would be disaster to water it down with fuzz, or to jerk it around with breaks in the flow and deletions.

But MORE importantly, why are you such a matrix fanboy? 2000 was so seven years ago, man. Get with the times, seriously...

I'm not a Matrix fanboy - that movie's shitter than Star Wars. I went by another name on another site, well almost, as the site made me use the prefix "neo", and as a result everyone kept calling me "neo," so I went by it.

cacafire · 07-04-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

shitter than star wars

Oh... My... Gawd.
Take that back right now or I'll have to kick your ass screaming WOOOOOOKIEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ef you and you star wars hating piece of caca like chiken wing that movie was like better than mao zedong picking his effin nose and I hafta go potty....zzzz

Fair enough.

jesterscourt · 07-04-2007, 04:47 PM

You know, I love a flamewar between fanboys as much as the next guy, particular if there is dismemberment involved, but could we get back on track of discussion of the "190 page novel"?

Mallignamius · 07-04-2007, 04:54 PM

I'm anticipating around 175,000 words for my first novel. It could drop to 125,000 after editing. So I'm uncomfortable with the experience that first time authors are said to have, their difficulty getting published.

But I can't sacrifice the story for word count.

mammamaia · 07-04-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Is there any reason why so many novels are around 180 - 192 pages long? I mean, there really are a huge amount of books out there in exactly that page range.

where are you seeing this?... in the YA section?... fyi, most books in mainstream fiction and other adult genres run much longer than that!

i run a free library and donation center and have thousands of donated books on my shelves here... and i can not see 'lots' of books in that range you claim is so prevalent, other than in the YA/teen section... i do see a handful of slim under-200-pg pbs on the adult shelves, but none in hard cover...

imrhati · 07-04-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

But MORE importantly, why are you such a matrix fanboy? 2000 was so seven years ago, man. Get with the times, seriously...

says the guy with Link for his avatar...

Neo · 07-05-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

where are you seeing this?... in the YA section?... fyi, most books in mainstream fiction and other adult genres run much longer than that!

i run a free library and donation center and have thousands of donated books on my shelves here... and i can not see 'lots' of books in that range you claim is so prevalent, other than in the YA/teen section... i do see a handful of slim under-200-pg pbs on the adult shelves, but none in hard cover...

Hard cover sucks. Anyway, it's just that there are tons of novels with that page length - Less Than Zero, The Omen, Catcher in the Rye, The Switch, you name it. I'm planning my book around 190 pages - hopefully around 300 to be honest - and I was just curious. Why is everyone so damn angry at my question?

mammamaia · 07-06-2007, 10:47 PM

not 'everybody'!

i certainly wasnt... anyway, there are as many or more tons of long ones than short novels around, so don't worry about the length of yours... you shouldn't even be counting pages, as agents and publishers only want to know what your total word count is [rounded off, of course]... they don't go by pages at all...

SeattleCPA · 07-07-2007, 10:44 AM

I don't want to bum people out with a comment like this, but I think the page length thing has just a TON to do with these two factors:

1. You need enough spine width on your book so the title is readable when book is stocked in the usual fashion on a bookstore shelf...

2. You don't want to jack up the page count too much because that screws up the manufacturing costs of the book.

That said, of course, there are exceptions... In the computer book category, O'Reilly & Associates used to do some really thin spine books. (Curiously, they also used only two color covers--which reduced their manufacturing costs yet again...)

BTW, a tangential comment... Long after I'd written a bunch of books, the buyer at one of the big chains kindly arranged for me to "work" in a bookstore for a week just to see the bookselling process from the inside. It was a hugely useful experience... I would totally recommend it to other writers.

Neo · 07-07-2007, 12:53 PM

I really think page number outdoes word count for the author, the word count only counts when dealing with actual publishers and stuff. I'm really self-conscious about page number.

mammamaia · 07-07-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

I really think page number outdoes word count for the author, the word count only counts when dealing with actual publishers and stuff. I'm really self-conscious about page number.

sorry, but while that does seem to be true for many amateur writers and newbies, it's not with seasoned authors...

the pros don't count pages... they don't have to, since they know about how many their ms' word count will equal from experience... and they also know that their publishers take care of the 'book' end of things, leaving them free to only churn out the words...