books on character creating - Writers Forum

huxley · 05-08-2007, 07:46 AM

is there any books on creating characters? like 3d character or memorable character?

or what about books on dialog?

Rob · 05-08-2007, 07:59 AM

Orson Scott Card's Characters & Viewpoint comes to mind.

Cheers,
Rob

Azmakna · 05-08-2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huxley

is there any books on creating characters? like 3d character or memorable character?

or what about books on dialog?

yes there is a book. it is called 'socialising' creating characters is easy: creating believable character is completely different. some writers create the character first, but they still have the story in mind. i prefer to create the story and let the character evolve during that process, correcting any anomalies in the rewrites.

SilkFX · 05-08-2007, 09:49 AM

*throws up hands in horror*

OMG! Don't you DARE waste your money on a book about creating characters! Or dialogue, for that matter!

Unless you've been living in solitary confinement your entire life, you already KNOW how to create characters and dialogue. What else is storytelling but imagining a world? Work that imagination! And pay attention to my sig!

*fans self*

Azmakna · 05-08-2007, 10:04 AM

Quote:

The REAL work of writing is in REWRITING.

abso-F*****g-lutely!!!!!

Rob · 05-08-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilkFX

Unless you've been living in solitary confinement your entire life, you already KNOW how to create characters and dialogue.

Then why are so many people so poor at it when they try to write fiction?

Cheers,
Rob

Azmakna · 05-08-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

"ON WRITING"

by Robert J. Sawyer

Constructing Characters

Copyright © 1995 by Robert J. Sawyer. All rights reserved.
Psst! Wanna hear a secret? The people in most stories aren't really humans — they're robots!
Real people are quite accidental, the result of a random jumbling of genes and a chaotic life. But story people are made to order to do a specific job. In other words, robots!
I can hear some of you pooh-poohing this notion, but it's not my idea. It goes back twenty-five hundred years to the classical playwrights. In Greek tragedy, the main character was always specifically designed to fit the particular plot. Indeed, each protagonist was constructed with an intrinsic hamartia, or tragic flaw, keyed directly to the story's theme. These days, writers have more latitude in narrative forms, but we still try to construct characters appropriate to a given tale.
Consider, for instance, Terence M. Green's Barking Dogs. The book posits the invention of infallible portable lie detectors. Of all the people in the world, Green chooses to give such a device to Mitch Helwig, a Toronto cop. Why that choice? Well, no one other than a cop deals so directly with questions of truth, and no one but a cop is so frustrated by the perversion of that truth, seeing guilty people he's arrested get off on technicalities. Armed with his lie detector, Mitch goes on a vigilante spree, ascertaining as soon as he nabs someone whether that person is guilty, and, if so, executing them.
Green knew he had to find the character who could best dramatize his premise. Frederik Pohl knew the same thing when he wrote Gateway. Its premise is simple: near a black hole, the passage of time slows to a stop.
To make this dramatic, Pohl came up with Robinette Broadhead, a man who had done something horrible to people he'd left behind near a black hole. The story is told through psychoanalytic sessions: Robinette can't get over his guilt because no matter how many years pass for him, it's always that one terrible moment of betrayal for those he's left behind. The novel works spectacularly — in fact, I'd go so far as to say it's the finest science-fiction novel ever written.
Others liked the book, too — and Pohl was pressured for a sequel. But the second book, Beyond the Blue Event Horizon, fell flat on its face. Why? Because Pohl had to shoehorn the character he'd built for a very specific job into a different story. Robinette, absolutely perfect for Gateway, was a fish out of water in the follow-up story about the discovery of a human child on an ancient alien space station.
Clearly, your character must fit your premise — but it's also important that you not make the fit too comfortable.
Everybody knows Steve Austin, the fictional test pilot who lost an arm and both legs in an aircraft crash and was rebuilt with super parts so that he could undertake secret missions. Austin first appeared in Cyborg, a mediocre novel by Martin Caidin, and was played by Lee Majors in the wonderful, Hugo-nominated movie The Six Million Dollar Man.
Why was the novel just so-so but the movie glorious? Simple. In the novel, Steve Austin was a colonel in the United States Air Force. When he was asked to undertake his first mission as the bionic man, he told his new secret-agent bosses, "You have a job to do. It's serious, in many ways it's dirty, in some ways it stinks, but having worn the blue suit [an Air Force uniform] for a long time, I understand and even appreciate what you do. You will receive my absolute cooperation."
Ho hum. Screenwriter Henri Simoun saw that Caidin had missed the essential conflict. For the movie version, he changed Colonel Austin to Mister Austin, one of six civilians in the U.S. astronaut program. Simoun's Austin fights those who are trying to make him an obedient little robot every step of the way — making for much better drama.
(When The Six Million Dollar Man became a TV series, the producers went back to Austin being an Air Force officer, and the show degenerated into mindless adventure.)
I almost made the same mistake Caidin did in my novel The Terminal Experiment, which is about the discovery of scientific evidence for the existence of the soul. My first thought had been to have a protagonist who had undergone a metaphysical bright-light-and-tunnel near-death experience. But that would have been absolutely the wrong choice. A person with that background would be predisposed to believe in the existence of the soul, accepting any proof too readily. No, what was called for was a skeptic — someone who had stumbled on the existence of the soul while looking for something else, and who would be bothered by the discovery. The lesson is simple: your main character should illuminate the fundamental conflict suggested by your premise.
And, of course, that means that you shouldn't start with a character and then go looking about for a story; it's a lot easier to do it the other way around. First, come up with your premise (for instance, "I want to write about a telepathic alien who can read subconscious instead of conscious thoughts"). Then you ask yourself who could most clearly dramatize the issues arising from that premise ("There's this guy, see, who's been suppressing terrible memories of the suicide of his wife").
After that, head for your keyboard and build the character to your specifications, for that one specific job. (In this case, the story has already been done brilliantly; it's Solaris by Stanislaw Lem.) Of course, you have to add subtleties and quirks to give your character depth, but if you do it right, only you will ever know that underneath the real-looking skin, your hero is actually a made-to-measure robot . . .

Joe Moore · 05-08-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huxley

is there any books on creating characters? like 3d character or memorable character? or what about books on dialog?

As aptly noted in the responses here, the skill of building compelling characters and dialogue is part of the craft of writing. But having said that, there are books that might be helpful for someone getting started in learning the craft. After all, no matter what stage of writing we’re in--beginner or bestseller--we can always learn something new.

I would suggest starting with the books published by Writer's Digest Magazine at http://www.writersdigestbookclub.com/

Since this is a Tips & Advice section of the forum, here are some tips regarding building your characters. There’s a good chance that you’ve already chosen the names for your main characters, but what about all the second and third level people that wander in and out of your book—the walk-ons. A fast way to find a mountain of name choices is the credit roll at the end of any motion picture on DVD or VHS. Just mix and match for ideas. If you need ethnic names such as Spanish or Italian, choose a film shot in those countries. Local production crews are always used and many of their names appeare in the credits.

There are also online databases listing the cast and crew of almost every movie ever made. The names are endless.

What about background and bios on your characters? One of the best sources of ideas for character background is the obituary section of newspapers. There’s also websites that link to the obituaries of thousands of newspapers. Use the obituary section to get ideas.

I recently took part in a technology panel at the Mystery Writers of America annual Sleuthfest in Miami Beach. Part of my presentation was tips on using technology to do research. If you’re interested in dozens of useful links like the ones mentioned above to help in your research, visit my Sleuthfest panel page. The address is:

http://joe-moore.com/research/

Joe

huxley · 05-08-2007, 02:00 PM

I wasn't going to buy any, just wanted some titles then I'd go to my lybrary to see if they have them.

Alex44 · 05-08-2007, 02:16 PM

The best way to get better at dialog is to just write it and see if it sounds right.

Two weeks ago I hated my dialog, and just through practice I now feel great about it. Not to say I am great at it, but I've improved a lot.

Also know your characters. A science teacher isn't going to talk the same as a hillbilly, and vice versa.

Rob · 05-08-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex44

The best way to get better at dialog is to just write it and see if it sounds right.

Two weeks ago I hated my dialog, and just through practice I now feel great about it. Not to say I am great at it, but I've improved a lot.

How do you know?

Cheers,
Rob

SilkFX · 05-08-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob

Then why are so many people so poor at it when they try to write fiction?

I presume you're talking about published fiction. Well, let's see...

1) Publishers publish a lot of crap. (My definition of crap: Cliched plots and situations, stock characters, unrealistic dialogue, faulty logic, etc. Your definition may differ...and Lord knows there are enough threads on this forum disputing the definition.)
2) Readers buy crap not knowing (or caring) that it is crap, thereby encouraging publishers to publish more crap.
3) True editors are a dying breed.

Those are a few reasons; I'm sure people could come up with others.

If you're talking about unpublished fiction (say, yours and your friends'), it's probably because the writer isn't taking the time to go beyond cliche to create truly compelling, 3-D characters and quality, realistic dialogue...and that goes back to what I say in my sig about rewriting. I personally think these rules apply to all kinds of fiction, not just the stuff I write ("literary" fiction).

That said, Joe Moore makes a good point: If you must get a book to teach you how to create characters and dialogue, I'm sure there are a few out there. I am relieved that you're going to try to find them from the library instead of pay for them, though, because seriously...the more you write, the better you get at it, and if you keep it up, you'll eventually wonder why you needed a book in the first place. That's all I'm saying. *shrug*

Rob · 05-08-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilkFX

I presume you're talking about published fiction.

Not really, no. By the time it's published, assuming we're talking old school publishing that is, it's probably something of a team effort and somewhere along the way characterisation and dialogue have been brought up to scratch, if it was necessary.

I was picking up on the idea that "Unless you've been living in solitary confinement your entire life, you already KNOW how to create characters and dialogue."

In my opinion, a lifetime of dealing with real people and everyday speech doesn't prepare people for writing fiction, with a few exceptions.

I feel the same about Alex's comment that "The best way to get better at dialog is to just write it and see if it sounds right."

I know of people in writing forums - and you probably do too - who've been writing fiction for some time and still write poor dialogue. Just writing it and seeing if it sounds right probably isn't enough for many people.

Cheers,
Rob

mammamaia · 05-08-2007, 10:36 PM

i don't believe anyone can learn how to build great characters and write good dialog by reading how-tos... the stuff you need to read to learn that is the best works of the best writers of what you want to write... and by 'best' i do not mean 'most popular'!

Rob · 05-09-2007, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

i don't believe anyone can learn how to build great characters and write good dialog by reading how-tos... the stuff you need to read to learn that is the best works of the best writers of what you want to write... and by 'best' i do not mean 'most popular'!

I know what you're saying, but people can read good fiction all year and still not understand what it is about the characterisation and dialogue they've read that makes it good, so their own attempts can be awful.

How-to books can help, and armed with that good reading.

Cheers,
Rob