Publishing relations - Writers Forum

AlexanderCrane · 05-06-2007, 05:04 PM

Does anyone have a story to share about publishing, from their own experience or experience of a friend?

I would like to make a little bit of money on the side with a few books here and there.

Anyone have any good information to relate for a would be writer?

killned3 · 05-06-2007, 06:50 PM

All I can do is wish you the best of luck . . . cuz if you're like the rest of us, you'll probably need it. :]

mammamaia · 05-06-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

I would like to make a little bit of money on the side with a few books here and there.

books on the trials and tribulations of getting published?... or are you just asking for basic info on how to get books published?... sorry, but your post and questions are too vague to tell what it is you need...

love and hugs, maia

AlexanderCrane · 05-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Well I know the basic formula, but what I am asking for a refined opinion about the ups and downs of how you do something in the writing business.

I'm supremely confident I could make some money on the side with skill but am not sure of the best ways to do.

Fishing for thoughts.

Phantom Writer · 05-06-2007, 08:39 PM

"supremely confident"

Those words sound great in a novel......but never be too confident in your own life, especially when you're talking about making money. Do you know who many other people are supremely confident as well? Do you know how many other writers you have to compete with?

Many times, we may think our own work is the greatest thing since sliced bread, when in fact......its a parody of 10,000 other works just like it.

AlexanderCrane · 05-06-2007, 10:31 PM

This is why I invited a refined opinion, from someone who can speak on this matter with authority.

If they recognize my intentions and have information to share that might help, I'd love to hear and make use of it as best I can.

Hope is irrelavent, that is why I am confident.

killned3 · 05-06-2007, 10:48 PM

mammamaia and Joe Moore should be able to give you some tips... they're the only people on here that I know of that have published novel-length works. If you're lucky, you might stumble upon some others that I'm unaware of.

Joe Moore · 05-07-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderCrane

Anyone have any good information to relate for a would be writer?

Alexander,

This is a wide open topic and almost impossible to address in a forum like this. But I can throw out a few tidbits I’ve personally learned along the way. Perhaps they will help answer your general question.

First, the bad news:

Virtually no one in the publishing industry has any idea what’s going on. Agents, publishers and editors have theories and strategies that seem to work for them some of the time, but most are just as clueless as you and I.

Unless and until you can establish a “brand”, most self-promotional efforts are a waste of time and money. That’s not to say that you should not self-promote. The more you do, the more books you will sell. The point is to work with your agent, publicist and publisher to get the biggest return for your time and money.

Even if you write a great book, there’s no guarantee that you will ever be published, much less sell enough copies to make any money. Don’t get me wrong, you do have to write a great book. But there are more great books that fail than succeed. Greatness is subjective, elusive and ambiguous.

And speaking of greatness, all books are considered great by someone.

It is next to impossible to make a living writing fiction. In fact, I will state that it is impossible.

Working hard does not lead to success, only to fatigue. But working smart might lead to success. This goes for any profession.

You can spend years writing your beloved, great work of fiction only to stand in a bookstore and watch customers pick it up, glance at it and lay it aside like a tomato in a supermarket. In a matter of 2-3 seconds, your life-long work has been rejected by the ultimate judge—the reader. Or you can sit at a table in a bookstore at your first big book signing and the only person to speak to you is a customer asking you for directions to the men’s room. It is a humbling experience beyond belief.

The moment you finish your first book you have risen to the rank of plankton in an over-crowed ocean of great white sharks.

Getting published is the ultimate uphill battle.

Now the good news:

Seeing your book for the first time on the “new releases” table in a bookstore is as thrilling as anything in your life. Having someone say they read your book and it changed their life is a bigger payment than the biggest royalty check. Typing “The End” to what you truly believe is your greatest work will feel like you’ve ascended Mount Everest.

Being a writer is the best job in the world. And remember, no other writer’s success can and will impede your own. Celebrate the success of other writers for they reconfirm that the marketplace is healthy.

In the end, the most important piece of advice I can give you is to write the best book you can. The odds are totally against you, but writing a good book can’t hurt.

Good luck,
Joe

AlexanderCrane · 05-07-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Moore

Alexander,

This is a wide open topic and almost impossible to address in a forum like this. But I can throw out a few tidbits I’ve personally learned along the way. Perhaps they will help answer your general question.

First, the bad news:

Virtually no one in the publishing industry has any idea what’s going on. Agents, publishers and editors have theories and strategies that seem to work for them some of the time, but most are just as clueless as you and I.

Unless and until you can establish a “brand”, most self-promotional efforts are a waste of time and money. That’s not to say that you should not self-promote. The more you do, the more books you will sell. The point is to work with your agent, publicist and publisher to get the biggest return for your time and money.

Even if you write a great book, there’s no guarantee that you will ever be published, much less sell enough copies to make any money. Don’t get me wrong, you do have to write a great book. But there are more great books that fail than succeed. Greatness is subjective, elusive and ambiguous.

And speaking of greatness, all books are considered great by someone.

It is next to impossible to make a living writing fiction. In fact, I will state that it is impossible.

Working hard does not lead to success, only to fatigue. But working smart might lead to success. This goes for any profession.

You can spend years writing your beloved, great work of fiction only to stand in a bookstore and watch customers pick it up, glance at it and lay it aside like a tomato in a supermarket. In a matter of 2-3 seconds, your life-long work has been rejected by the ultimate judge—the reader. Or you can sit at a table in a bookstore at your first big book signing and the only person to speak to you is a customer asking you for directions to the men’s room. It is a humbling experience beyond belief.

The moment you finish your first book you have risen to the rank of plankton in an over-crowed ocean of great white sharks.

Getting published is the ultimate uphill battle.

Now the good news:

Seeing your book for the first time on the “new releases” table in a bookstore is as thrilling as anything in your life. Having someone say they read your book and it changed their life is a bigger payment than the biggest royalty check. Typing “The End” to what you truly believe is your greatest work will feel like you’ve ascended Mount Everest.

Being a writer is the best job in the world. And remember, no other writer’s success can and will impede your own. Celebrate the success of other writers for they reconfirm that the marketplace is healthy.

In the end, the most important piece of advice I can give you is to write the best book you can. The odds are totally against you, but writing a good book can’t hurt.

Good luck,
Joe

There aren't many forums that I know of where writers of all levels can gather and share thoughts openly and freely, thankfully forums like this exist.

You guys are a big help, thanks for humoring me.

Well, as I said in the previous post I would like to make some money on the side. I can serve through my words, and be compensated by the universe for it. Balance is key when surfing a wave.

I'm already writing because I love it and it puts a loudspeaker to my heart. I write things that are beautiful, and if it ever sells on the side or people read it and enjoy my art, then I am just like a flower on the road that is noticed for its particular scent or color.

If anyone knows any concrete ways of building a writing career that are paramount to success, let me know.

I'm trying to present myself as an established writer so I can absorb information from establish writers.

I always try to share information with people, so they can facilitate their own dreams in their own ways. I know that by sharing and promoting other lifeforms, I am being an integrated functional part of the web of life. And the joyous energy that vibtrates through the web.

I write out of happiness or inspiration usually, and find there is a certain vibration or charge to the words. So I feel it is just a matter of study and experience before I can accomplish whatever goals I set, that are within reason.

Just trying to present myself an open mind, and hook a fish with an experienced brain that likes to share information.

Point blank, what would you avoid if you could? What would you do first thing, years ahead. I am the most patient person alive, I'll build something slowly for a long time if that is what a certain project needs.

strangedaze · 05-07-2007, 11:39 AM

alex,

a surefire way to come off looking like an established writer is to establish yourself as a writer. that means sending your writing to literary journals, magazines, or anywhere else that could work as a publishing credit. agents (and publishing houses, i would assume) are more likely to take you and your work seriously if you have proven yourself through previous publications.

that being said, plenty of people have published novels without a dense cv. its a bit harder to do, i think, if youre interested in writing 'literary' fiction, as opposed to something easily categorized in a genre (ie: scifi, horror, romance, thriller, etc), but stranger things have happened. as far as i know, arundhati roy had no fiction previously published prior to her novel God of Small Things, but that book nabbed her a triple figure (in british pounds, no less) publishing deal. the book went on to win the booker prize, a tidy sum in of itself, the skyrocketed to bestsellerdom.

her case is by no means the norm, but shows that it is possible, though absurdly unlikely, to hit big. others have said it, so ill just reiterate: the most important thing is producing the the best book you possibly can, because quality will make or break you.

if you want an insiders view of the publishing world (loaded with humor and VERY helpful tips for writers), check out Miss Snark, literary agent, at misssnark.blogspot.com

cheers.

Mike C · 05-07-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Moore

And speaking of greatness, all books are considered great by someone.

You forgot to mention the acid test - if the book is considered great only by the author and his/her mother, it probably isn't!

mammamaia · 05-07-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Point blank, what would you avoid if you could? What would you do first thing, years ahead.

ok, so you finally got down to brass tacks, with some answerable questions [though a '?' is missing in the second one, along with a word or two

]...

what to avoid is, first and foremost, sending out work that isn't ready to be seen by agents/publishers... don't make the mistake of thinking you're so good they'll fall all over themselves to get you... get your work checked out by someone knowledgeable, who'll tell you if it's good enough to submit and who'll tell you why not, if it isn't... and don't ever rely on the opinion of anyone you're related to or sleeping with!

next thing to avoid is being taken in by non-legit agents/publishers or out and out scams... always check out all you intend to submit to, on preditors & editors and google for feedback from the disgruntled...

what you 'do first thing,' is write something that strangers will pay good money to read...

what you do 'years ahead,' is keep on doing that!...

hope that helps... got any more actual questions?...

hugs, m

AlexanderCrane · 05-07-2007, 08:56 PM

Fortunately, I've already written a book that everyone loves and I have had authors tell me it is very good and I have a lot of talent.

I seriously believe the hard part is out of the way.

All I'm doing here is trying to find people who have done what I am going to do so it will be easier on me. And such is the way of life, with mature and growing wills.

I'd love to find a network of writers who have been published, as I feel I could greatly apply all of their insights.

AlexanderCrane · 05-07-2007, 10:17 PM

I was planning on grabbing the latest index of publishing companies but wasn't sure which one's to go for.

Also, there are a lot of publications and contests, but I have no reference to judge which ones I should devote time and energy too. Anyone can have their own publication these days.

I create my art anyway, but I would devote a little bit of time every day towards getting published if I had a clear and definite vision of what to do.

The best thing to do is find someone who already has the vision and ask them to share.

killned3 · 05-08-2007, 12:18 AM

Write some good query letters--make sure to learn how to write them first, unless you already do--and then send them out to publishing companies which have requirements you can meet. The Writer's Market is published every year, and it's sold in any decent bookstore around . . . try Barnes and Noble or Borders . . . they should have a copy or two. The Writer's Market lists pretty much every publishing house there is, primarily in the US and Canada, along with what requirements these houses would like met, their guidelines, and their contact information.

If your goal is to simply devote a fraction of your time to getting your work published, then I'm sure you won't have a problem with taking things easily. Many publishing companies respond within 3-6 weeks to a query from what I've seen and had the pleasure to experience, and if you're in no particular hurry the wait will seem half of that. Have a synopsis of your novel ready if an editor asks for one, as well as a couple sample chapters laid out nicely. This is the best advice I can give for you right now--and it's pretty basic--but hopefully I've said enough.