Inner thoughts - Writers Forum

rosenthalpiano · 04-27-2007, 10:20 PM

I've decided to start this thread because my last thread in here (This vs. that? Now vs. then?) somehow wound up on this subject, and I think it's an important one, so ...

What are all your personal preferences in how to convey a character's inner thoughts? Specifically when dealing in the 3rd person.

Personally, I like to do this by italicizing the inner thought, followed by a (non-italicized) tag. For example:

Well, I might as well keep it, he decided as he pocketed the ring.

or

Not surprising, he chuckled. The man obviously has nothing to sell.

I like doing this because it allows me to reveal EXACTLY what the character is thinking at a given moment. Of course, I always try to use it sparingly, because there are other devices that can be used to accomplish the same thing.

I'd also like to discuss the actual tags for these inner thoughts. All too often (and I still do this sometimes too, but I'm trying to stop), I see people use "he thought" or "he thought to himself", but it can get rather repetitive after a while. So what do you all think of using different verbs? Such as:

considered
decided
sulked
fumed
chuckled
mused
pondered

Is this a good idea, or a bad idea? If it's a good idea, can you think of any other verbs that could be used?

killned3 · 04-27-2007, 11:30 PM

I convey inner thoughts through italics, like you put in your post. The great majority of writers that I've had the chance to read also do this. It's the easiest and most comfortable method.

As for using dialogue-based verbs, I'd use fancy ones very sparingly. Too many, and it's like putting too much relish on your hot dog. One placed well once in a blue moon can add the right touch to an otherwise boring bit of dialogue or writing, and it can also ruin an otherwise good bit.

By the way, you should never use "sulk" as a dialogue-based verb, even in inner thought dialogue, because it denotes action. You can't "sulk" what you say, nor can you "chuckle" it; you can "shout" it, "say" it, "whisper" it, "cry" it, etc. You can "muse", "ponder", "decide", etc., when you convey messages through thought. I'm sure you catch what I'm trying to say.

Most of the aforementioned is my opinion, so I can't guarantee I've been of much help, but if I have, then I'm glad.

Colt

rosenthalpiano · 04-27-2007, 11:50 PM

I wonder though... of course you can't chuckle something spoken aloud, but can you chuckle an inner monologue? Haven't you ever thought of something funny and it made you laugh internally?

killned3 · 04-28-2007, 12:24 AM

You could say it made the person feel like laughing, but to laugh is a physical verb. I suppose you'd be fine by saying he laughed on the inside, but it's not something I'd probably do.

Mike C · 04-28-2007, 02:37 AM

What an interesting thread!

Oh my god, not again. Another idiot who doesn't use the search function, so doesn't realise this has been covered many times before. What a jerk!

Dawnstorm · 04-28-2007, 04:07 AM

You misunderstand, MikeC. It's a thread generating machine. It works like this:

1. Make a thread about "this vs. that" in past tense narration and talk about the representantion of thought.

2. Make a thread about the representation of throught and talk non-utterance verbs as dialogue tags.

3. Make a thread about non-utterance verbs as dialogue tags and talk about -

Well, we'll have to wait and see.

***

Anyway:

Thoughts rendered in italics is quite common. In highly stylised forms (such as fairy tales) I've seen quotation marks used. Then, I've seen thought not marked at all:

Well, I might as well keep it, he decided as he pocketed the ring.

And then there's what I call "third person transliteration of thought", which is exceedingly common in thrid person limited narration.

Well, he might as well keep it. He pocketed the ring.

I personally use the above method most of the time. Italics I use only when there's a reason to emphasise the exact phrase (repeating someone else's word's, silently addressing someone else while deciding not to speak, or the speech/real-thought opposition [as in MikeC's example]...). Regular thought just blends in with the narration.

***

As for: Not surprising, he chuckled.

This doesn't work for me. However, I get the message, many people do it (even for dialogue), and it ends up in print. Last spotted in Jasper FForde, The Eyre Affair, where a character shrugged a piece of dialogue. (I somehow doubt I was supposed to imagine the character shrug morse code.)

Banzai · 04-28-2007, 04:11 AM

Damnit Dawnstorm! I'm going to be trying to shrug dialogue all day now, just to find it can't be done, by the end of the day! I hope you're happy

Dawnstorm · 04-28-2007, 05:17 AM

Very happy, I assure you. (Hope you'll find someone to rub your shoulders...)

Cran · 04-28-2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosenthalpiano

What are all your personal preferences in how to convey a character's inner thoughts? Specifically when dealing in the 3rd person.

That depends a great deal on the piece I am writing. In most circumstances, I'd likely use the standard typeface, because the text should convey that the statement is a thought.
I mostly use italics for less well known foreign (non-English) words, sometimes for proper names or places, or titles and literary quotes ... though a few of my early writings have used italics for quoted thoughts ...
In a long story, where thoughts were also a means of communication between characters, I used single quotes ... and double quotes for speech, depicting an iteration of a quoted thought ...
and for thoughts which are embedded asides (where is my thesaurus?), I will often use brackets ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosenthalpiano

I'd also like to discuss the actual tags for these inner thoughts. All too often (and I still do this sometimes too, but I'm trying to stop), I see people use "he thought" or "he thought to himself", but it can get rather repetitive after a while. So what do you all think of using different verbs? Such as:
considered
decided
sulked
fumed
chuckled
mused
pondered
Is this a good idea, or a bad idea? If it's a good idea, can you think of any other verbs that could be used?

Unless the piece of writing depends upon the use of repetition, I believe it is a good idea to avoid repetition as much as possible.
sighed
imagined
contemplated
ruminated

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosenthalpiano

of course you can't chuckle something spoken aloud

ah, but of course you can! ... perhaps not as coherently, but if you've never heard anyone talking and chuckling, or even laughing, at the same time, you don't get out enough ...

Quote:

killned3: By the way, you should never use "sulk" as a dialogue-based verb, even in inner thought dialogue, because it denotes action.

Which is precisely why you should use such verbs, or
non-utterance verbs as dialogue tags as Dawnstorm described them.
They describe the speaker's associated action, rather than describe the method of speech, and in that way add something to the story and not simply belabour the obvious.

edited: spotted a typo ... twice ...

killned3 · 04-28-2007, 04:10 PM

Only if you add it after the dialogue as a different sentence.

"This isn't fair!" He sulked.

Because if you just say, "This isn't fair!" he sulked, then you're saying that he "sulked" the words. In fact, "sulking" usually denotes a period of silence; how then, if one is sulking, can they can be speaking at the same time? However, adding that he sulked after he spoke, it becomes more plausible. If you want to use an action that fits but isn't illegal, then say that he "whined" those words. It's very easy to whine just about anything, but difficult to sulk your words. As for chuckling words, that's possible enough . . . I've seen that happen many times.

mammamaia · 04-28-2007, 08:23 PM

i guess i'll have to repeat what i said in all the other threads on this overasked question:

a good writer does not have to resort to tricks such as italics, to let the reader know what the character is thinking... sprinking a story/novel with italics annoys many agents/publishers/readers... including moi-meme!

i always advise my mentees to learn to write well enough so they won't have to use italics for anything but occasional word emphasis or foreign words [as they're supposed to be used]...

killned3 · 04-28-2007, 09:50 PM

I don't think I've read a single book that doesn't make use of italics for use other than emphasis or foreign words. Whether they're supposed to be used for anything else doesn't matter; the tool is there to be used at any writer's discretion.

je33ie · 04-29-2007, 01:47 AM

Mammamaia, I agree with you.

Stories with italics for people's thoughts might suit fairytales, but grown-up stories should be able to show what the character's thinking without the "I'm so sad, she sulked".

je33ie · 04-29-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killned3

I don't think I've read a single book that doesn't make use of italics for use other than emphasis or foreign words.

PS Killned, your double-negatives and over-use of 'use' confused the hell out of me!

killned3 · 04-29-2007, 01:52 AM

je33ie, I don't think you understand what we're talking about. Sadness and anger and happiness are emotions easily conveyable through the use of dialogue and description, but to actually go in-depth with one's thoughts is different.

Read anything by King, and you'll see what I mean.

By the way, sorry for the confusion.