This vs. that? Now vs. then? - Writers Forum

rosenthalpiano · 04-26-2007, 11:28 AM

Someone recently critiqued a piece of my work on these forums, and it caused me to pose a question...

When do we use this instead of that? And I'm not talking about proximity of location, I'm talking about proximity of time.

These are the sentences that started it all:

Laef could not believe what he had just been told to do, and he nearly dropped the small plate he was so vigorously scrubbing with a large sponge. Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose this day. True, it needed to be done, desperately; but why today?

Obviously this is written in the past tense, so the time proximity to the reader is going to be remote.

Now my critiquer pointed out that in the second sentence, it should be "that day" rather than "this day". She also pointed out that the use of the word "today" should be change to something that more reflects the distance of time, but I can't imagine what that would be.

But I wonder if this is correct? IF it is, I will humbly change it. For some reason, though, changing that to this when dealing with proximity of time seems to disconnect the reader with what is going on. Using the past tense instead of the present tense does that enough already, as it is. Do we really need to drive that feeling home?

I'd be interested to know what some of you guys's thoughts are.

Azmakna · 04-26-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Laef could not believe what he had just been told to do, and he nearly dropped the small plate he was so vigorously scrubbing with a large sponge. Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose this day. True, it needed to be done, desperately; but why today?

absolutely nothing wrong with this as far as i can see. in what context is this paragraph written? could you post the two before it please

rosenthalpiano · 04-26-2007, 11:56 AM

That's it. That is how the story begins.

Laef could not believe what he had just been told to do, and he nearly dropped the small plate he was so vigorously scrubbing with a large sponge. Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose this day. True, it needed to be done, desperately; but why today? Couldn’t it wait until tomorrow? The vile man was really beginning to grate on his nerves. Only four weeks on the job, and Laef had already come to realize that Gabor seemed to enjoy taunting him. Well, it wasn’t exactly a new job. Laef only considered it as such because Gabor was his new boss. And however much he hated the man for his malicious ways, there was nothing he could do about it. For a moment, Laef simply stood there, his jaw dropped, staring bug-eyed at the tavern owner.

Azmakna · 04-26-2007, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosenthalpiano

That's it. That is how the story begins.

Laef could not believe what he had just been told to do, and he nearly dropped the small plate he was so vigorously scrubbing with a large sponge. Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose this day. True, it needed to be done, desperately; but why today? Couldn’t it wait until tomorrow? The vile man was really beginning to grate on his nerves. Only four weeks on the job, and Laef had already come to realize that Gabor seemed to enjoy taunting him. Well, it wasn’t exactly a new job. Laef only considered it as such because Gabor was his new boss. And however much he hated the man for his malicious ways, there was nothing he could do about it. For a moment, Laef simply stood there, his jaw dropped, staring bug-eyed at the tavern owner.

i know its in past tense and that 'this' is generally seen as present tense, but it still works for me because it gives it gravitas. leave it...

Dawnstorm · 04-26-2007, 01:57 PM

Hi,

This, today etc. are perfectly okay in past tense narration.

If you'd like a theoretical justification, look here.

The part that's relevant for you is 6.2. "deictic situations in fiction", especially point (55).

rosenthalpiano · 04-26-2007, 03:03 PM

Thanks Dawnstorm.

mammamaia · 04-26-2007, 09:44 PM

to fix the tense confusion, you could do this:

Quote:

Laef could not believe what he had just been told to do, and he nearly dropped the small plate he was so vigorously scrubbing with a large sponge. Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose today, Laef fumed. True, it needed to be done, desperately, but why now?

that makes it clear that he's thinking those things and makes sense of it being in present tense, within an overall past tense pov...

rosenthalpiano · 04-26-2007, 10:03 PM

mammamaia:

Would that count as an inner monologue by Laef? I'm just wondering because I usually put those sorts of things in italics, like:

Of all the days to do the filthy work, Gabor Pandis just had to choose today, Laef fumed. True, it needed to be done, desperately, but why now?

killned3 · 04-26-2007, 11:01 PM

That second part of the monologue following "Leaf fumed." shouldn't be italicized, since that's part of the narration.

rosenthalpiano · 04-27-2007, 12:09 AM

Thanks. I know this thread has gotten a little off topic, but thanks anyways. These suggestions really help me, personally.

Destroyer · 04-27-2007, 06:05 AM

If it's going to be a thought, change "needed" to "needs"

mammamaia · 04-27-2007, 10:07 PM

could be either, d... depending on how long the need existed...

and no italics are needed, rosen... too many writers overuse/misuse/abuse the use of them in writing inner dialog/thoughts, which annoys the heck out of many readers... this one, in particular!...

rosenthalpiano · 04-27-2007, 10:13 PM

I like using italics to convey inner thoughts, although I try not to do it that way too often. It's just my own personal writing style, I suppose. For instance:

Well, I might as well keep it, he decided as he pocketed the ring.

but

He had never had that much to spend at one time, and doubted he ever would. (I would never say: I've never had that much to spend at one time, he sulked. And I doubt I ever will.)

I'm going to start a new thread on this topic, because this one is getting away from its original topic, and I think this is a good issue to discuss.

Destroyer · 04-28-2007, 04:24 AM

I'm the same way. I don't tend to have that much thought shown, mostly because my character tends to project her thoughts to another by accident. So any thoughts that are private to her I write in the same manner as everything else.

Rob · 04-28-2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

and no italics are needed, rosen... too many writers overuse/misuse/abuse the use of them in writing inner dialog/thoughts, which annoys the heck out of many readers... this one, in particular!...

And this one.

Cheers,
Rob