Filler? - Writers Forum

soundandfury · 03-12-2007, 03:24 PM

Hi everybody. . . I've been writing a book for some time now about a teenage girl involved with an older, married man. For the sake of character development, and, of course, to get readers attached, I've been trying to put in a lot of filler scenes, but the problem is. . . I don't know exactly how to do it. See, if I saw a teenage girl and a man (about thirty, I think, I haven't narrowed his age down yet) "canoodling" in a restaurant, I would stare, at least. I would think that a lot of people would confront them.

I guess I have two questions. 1: What could they possibly do together that people wouldn't think it was weird that they were together. 2: Would it be more realistic to have them always be questioned wherever they go?

I'm afraid that if they're always being bugged about their age difference, the guy will start to seem like a creep to the reader, and I don't want that. He's supposed to be a very sweet, kind, moral person trapped in a very bad mistake, so I'm having a lot of trouble trying to keep him from sounding like a pervert.

Any help is appreciated!

Kane · 03-12-2007, 04:09 PM

Quote:

I'm afraid that if they're always being bugged about their age difference, the guy will start to seem like a creep to the reader, and I don't want that. He's supposed to be a very sweet, kind, moral person trapped in a very bad mistake, so I'm having a lot of trouble trying to keep him from sounding like a pervert.

If you don't want him to sound like a creep, then make sure the reader knows what kind of guy he is. The readers will probably think of him as you write him, but it might be kind of hard to paint a man who is cheating on his wife with a teenage girl as kind, sweet, and moral. Also, if this girl is jailbait, then showing public affection should not just get this man chewed out by Joe Schmo, but arrested as well, shouldn't it?

One more thing... I don't like this idea of "filler." A story should contain only what is necessary for the telling of the story. If you are having to add filler, then ask yourself why. If it's integral to the story, it's not filler. If it isn't integral to the story, get rid of it.

cbrmale · 03-12-2007, 06:13 PM

I will agree on Kane, you shouldn't have 'filler' in a story: every word, sentence and paragraph is there for a reason.

I am not a Christian, so I can relate to the scenario you are painting. There are two sides to cheating or relationship breakdown, and you have a golden opportunity to paint the married man's side. Why is he interested in someone else? Is his wife cold and distant, maybe she refuses to have sex with him, maybe there is a huge disconnect in the marriage such that it drives him to find someone affectionate. You probably worked this out as the man's backstory in any case.

As far as the girl goes, as long as she is older than 16 she would be legal in my country. Some girls in the age 16-18 can be extraordinarily attractive and surprisingly mature. A man dating a mature and attractive 17 year old would seem less a pervert. Again, you probably worked this out too.

Again in my country, a man with a teenage girlfriend not be harrassed or bugged in any way, we are sexually liberated I suppose. But the couple would notice disapproving looks, glances and stares. Sometimes, men the same age as your character may look on him with envy. You can tell a lot from facial expressions, and this may be the best way to deal with disapproval. Subtlety is the key.

I am in a cross-cultural relationship, and when I was in my wife's home country I noticed the looks of disapproval from the whites. It was noticeable, something I will never forget.

Like I said, people would look or maybe stare as was your natural instinct, but only you can decide if a confrontation is likely based on your knowledge of behaviour in your country. In my country, no.

Jaala · 03-12-2007, 07:19 PM

Ditto what's already been stated with regard to filler. Editors tend to cut out anything that doesn't move the story along, so make sure that every scene you add is integral to the rest of the novel.

That being said, I don't think people would confront the couple. They'd get stares, to be sure, and people would probably whisper to their friends. But a lot of people might assume that she just "looks young" and go on about their business. It's hard to say exactly without knowing the character.

Do make sure to get into the mind of the man so that it can be shown that he's not just a "dirty old man".

Hobbes · 03-12-2007, 10:45 PM

Whatever you write, don't think of it as 'filler' while writing it, or else it'll come through when others are reading it. If I were in your position, I'd simply think over what it would be like to be in the guy's position, in the girl's position, and in an onlooker's position, and write whatever came to mind. It truly depends on which parts of their relationship you want presented to the reader.

soundandfury · 03-13-2007, 12:46 AM

Thanks guys! More responses would be great, but this is way more than I expected already.

Maybe "filler" wasn't quite the right word. I want a lot of scenes that are more about delving into their personalities than about any plot twists or such things. . . . I guess in a way I think of that as filler. But it's not really, is it? It's important, yeah? In this story, anyway, as it isn't so much about the drama of the fact that he's cheating on his wife as it is about questioning what love really is, so there needs to be lots of getting-inside-the-characters'-heads.

The thing is. . . the story is written as a third person POV from the girl's perspective, and she's pretty mature in everything except for love, so she sees this man, even though she knows he's cheating, as just about perfect. She'll realize he's not by the end, but it's not a reliable-narrator kind of deal.

I really want this book to play devil's advocate. I don't think it's right to cheat, but I want to put it out there that people don't always get marriage right the first time. It sounds a bit harsh, I guess, but it's what I've observed. I think it's entirely possible to think that someone is your soulmate, marry them, and later find a love deeper than you ever thought could exist. Whether or not that what this girl and this guy have would really be up to the reader to decide for themselves. It's human weakness, and trying to please everyone, in this case, that drives the guy to cheat. He's finding a real connection with this young girl, deeper than he remembers ever having had with his wife, but he does love his wife, and they've shared a life for years, although in the year before the book starts she's been colder and more distant, so in a way he is just looking for someone to hold.

P.S. The girl is 17, which is still jailbait here. . . I'm wondering. . . would the cops get involved just because they suspected she was underage? They can't do that, can they?

imrhati · 03-13-2007, 08:44 AM

Cops would definetly investigate if she appeared to eb young. Maybe they pretend she is his daughter when in public?

ruksak · 03-13-2007, 09:18 AM

I think that bugging them would only amount to teasing and joking of sorts. I think if the relationship was illegal, then the motive (be it love, lust or otherwise) from both of them, particularly the older man, should be scrutinised and thought through very carefully. However, I would have problems sympathising with a man who canoodled with someone underage in public or otherwise.

If it's not illegal a lot of this would depend on appearances. I've travelled a lot and seen little more repellent than a obese, bald western male with a beautiful teenage Thai woman walking hand in hand. Having said that a good friend of mine is 17 years older than his 22-year-old Colombian wife, but he is in good shape, handsome and intelligent, so this is different to me. Call me shallow, but it's a human truth. And, to be perfectly honest no one bothers them at all about their age gap except a few, trusted good friends when in jest.

Sorry, I realise I have perhaps raised more questions than answers, but this is a tricky one to write well.

Womegolhl · 03-13-2007, 12:03 PM

It also depends where you've set it - where I live you can only get hold of the police by calling them (lol). Also they would get involved, but they'd have to very sure before they did anything.

cbrmale · 03-13-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundandfury

Thanks guys! More responses would be great, but this is way more than I expected already.

Maybe "filler" wasn't quite the right word. I want a lot of scenes that are more about delving into their personalities than about any plot twists or such things. . . . I guess in a way I think of that as filler. But it's not really, is it? It's important, yeah? In this story, anyway, as it isn't so much about the drama of the fact that he's cheating on his wife as it is about questioning what love really is, so there needs to be lots of getting-inside-the-characters'-heads.

The thing is. . . the story is written as a third person POV from the girl's perspective, and she's pretty mature in everything except for love, so she sees this man, even though she knows he's cheating, as just about perfect. She'll realize he's not by the end, but it's not a reliable-narrator kind of deal.

I really want this book to play devil's advocate. I don't think it's right to cheat, but I want to put it out there that people don't always get marriage right the first time. It sounds a bit harsh, I guess, but it's what I've observed. I think it's entirely possible to think that someone is your soulmate, marry them, and later find a love deeper than you ever thought could exist. Whether or not that what this girl and this guy have would really be up to the reader to decide for themselves. It's human weakness, and trying to please everyone, in this case, that drives the guy to cheat. He's finding a real connection with this young girl, deeper than he remembers ever having had with his wife, but he does love his wife, and they've shared a life for years, although in the year before the book starts she's been colder and more distant, so in a way he is just looking for someone to hold.

P.S. The girl is 17, which is still jailbait here. . . I'm wondering. . . would the cops get involved just because they suspected she was underage? They can't do that, can they?

You have an interesting perspective on love, and what you have observed is quite true. Actually, I believe that many marry without being truly in love, and the relationship disintegrates as a result. True, deep and lifetime love is a difficult thing to describe, because both an friendship type of relationship and an infatuation type of relationship can be described in similar terms. But soulmate type of love contains both friendship, shared interests and passionate sexual desire: all components of love wrapped into something precious. But unless you experience this complete type of love, you don't know what you are missing.

In my country, the police wouldn't get involved in such a relationship unless someone complained. In this instance, you have a young woman who is very close to your age of consent (which I personally believe is too high), and the relationship almost straddles a grey area, and I doubt if the police would be too worried. She is illegal today, but legal in the near future. Nonetheless, you have some opportunity to write a bit of tension into the scenario, you can make the lovers suffer for love if you know what I mean.

soundandfury · 03-13-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

However, I would have problems sympathising with a man who canoodled with someone underage in public or otherwise.

That's part of why I'm so interested in this idea. . . I like a challenge.

Quote:

In my country, the police wouldn't get involved in such a relationship unless someone complained.

I'm pretty sure that's how it is around here. . . I have a 16-year-old friend who is very public with her 26-year-old boyfriend, and nothing's happened yet in terms of cops.

Quote:

Maybe they pretend she is his daughter when in public?

That's actually a really good idea, because part of the story is that, when people find out about the relationship, they think she is trying to use him to replace her father (who died when she was younger). It might make sense, then, to have it seem like a father-daughter kind of relationship. . . at least at first. Eventually I think a girl would be a bit grossed out by that, though, don't you think?

Quote:

Call me shallow, but it's a human truth.

Heh, I don't think that's shallow at all! But then, maybe I'm shallow too.

Kane · 03-13-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

I want a lot of scenes that are more about delving into their personalities than about any plot twists or such things.

This is called character development, not filler.

mammamaia · 03-13-2007, 07:55 PM

'filler scenes' don't make sense to me... everything in a story/novel/screenplay should either advance the plot or tell us something about the characters... so, to toss stuff in just to pad the word count or whatever, is a big mistake... but, if you're adding scenes to give us a better idea of why the characters do what they do, then i wouldn't call them 'fillers'...

soundandfury · 03-13-2007, 11:09 PM

Like I said, bad choice of words.

je33ie · 03-13-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundandfury

P.S. The girl is 17, which is still jailbait here. . . I'm wondering. . . would the cops get involved just because they suspected she was underage? They can't do that, can they?

I agree with most of the posts here: I don't think the cops would get involved and the worst they would get is stares and whispers.

A good way to make the reader like the older man is to focus on the friendship and deep understanding between the pair before sex is even considered. Don't make him out to be a sexual predator in anyway; maybe even have the girl initiate the first sexual encounter.

I don't like the idea of them pretending to be father/daughter... that's just weird. You could try something like "Piano instructor" though. She will need some way of lying to her family because I'm sure they won't approve!

I'm not sure how old you are, but never lose sight of how mature and capable you felt at 17. I was surely confident enough to hold my head high in almost any situation.

One additional question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrmale

I am not a Christian, so I can relate to the scenario you are painting.

Excuse me? I'm not Christian either but that doesn't mean I think cheating on your wife with a 17 year old girl is necessarily something I can relate to. Don't you think you're jumping to conclusions, Cbrmale?