Skradetz

Perhaps to you they are the same thing. But I, myself, have always been a writer. I wrote when I needed to, not when I wanted to. I wrote because I needed to, not intending for, or even wanting other people to read them. Now though, I'm trying to be an author. I have always been able to write interesting short stories, but nothing any longer. I need help. When your writing because you need to, there is no need for prewriting. For anything else it is. How do you plan for longer works of fiction?

cbrmale

There are many threads on planning, and there are as many ways to plan as writers or authors. I always plan, because it enables me to produce a story that says what I want it to say (the theme) within the word limits set to make it publishable. I am a technical writer, and anything I write in my job that is longer than a couple of pages is always planned.

I personally work out the setting and key characters to start, and then the theme, and then the other characters and plot. This is usually random jottings on a notepad. I then convert the plot into something longer in a MS Word document with the likely chapter breaks. I will outline key events in more detail, such as an important conversation, but I am also just as likely to change these key events when writing.

My plan for a 70,000 word novel would run to several pages and many thousands of words, but every novel-length work I have written has been set in different countries to my own, and two of them in different times (1940s and 1920s), so the plan contains many references to my research. Linking in the research at the planning stage makes writing it easier.

My recently finished work set in Paris in the 1920s took four months to research and plan, and about four months to write. And the research! Everything from when the various Paris metro lines were opened to details on womens underwear (satin cami-knickers split at the front and fastened with buttons covered by a satin or cotton chemise, no bras). Clothing, music, stage shows, taxis etc etc.

Skradetz

Thank you very much. This should all help. I'll look for those other threads. Next time, I will also remember to look for threads similar to the one I plan to make before I actually make it. I have a fair amount of research for mine already. Covering a lot... from hallucinations and insomnia and how, sometimes, they may be related, to Native American herbal remedies. But wow... Its not near as in depth as that and I just realized I still have a lot to research and learn about before I actually start writing that story.

Blackwater92

I'm on the same boat as you. I am currently writing a fantasy novel. Right now I am "creating my world". I am writing about my world's history, geography, creatures, races, cultures, religion, weather, nature laws, human laws etc...This is a long process. It almost feels like I can fit all this information into a novel! I then plan on writing down detailed bio's of the main characters, such as personal psyche, self-awareness, perception of surroundings, childhood history, motivation etc...Of course I have a plot in mind, and I will write down ideas for subplots as I think of them. I know there are more organized ways (or proper ways) to approach this, but for me this seems to work. Or maybe I'm just strange.

rboy27

I agree with cbrmale, research is what really makes a story. Even if you write fantasy, a little research will go a long way. I've also found that researching a completely random topic can give you some really interesting story ideas.

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torn

I have to admit i even plan my short stories, with at least a page of notes, what i want to happen in the story, and how i want my premise to show.

It pretty much the same for when i do a novel, but i plan the story first, what i want to happen and with who, and write events and characters around that, and then break those up into chapters. With the main story planned i then write chapter outlines of everythig i need to happen in that chapter.

Of course things change as you write, you get newer better ideas, but it stops you wandering off, or missing something.

Also i do all my planning on paper and keep it in ring binders

edit: on the researching note, i find you have to get the littlest things, the other day i spent an hour researching wild french herbs, just so i could make one sentance plausable. I could have used a filler like just saying herb but i think that if anyone reads my story they deserve for it to at least be accurate.

mwd

I research quite a bit, typically on topics only tangentially related to what I expect the story to be about (I already know a fair bit about the things that are closely related to what I expect to be writing about, but some research around the edges gives things more breadth), but I don't really plan. You certainly don't need to unless you want to. So I don't see any need for "prewriting". Most of my time is spent rewriting ... not changing the story's structure or its theme, but smoothing out sentences, clipping words, improving imagery, and so on. This is when I consider my audience. I try and make things read well for them. I try to make my work feel shorter than it is (i.e, it reads smooth and is interesting) and that people will feel that the time spent reading it was worthwhile. But this aspect of writing isn't tied with planning. Maybe one helps you do the other, but they aren't necessarily connected unless you make them so.

I have the "seed" of the story/novel in mind before I start, but no real idea of the specifics. I discover those while working on the first draft. I hear what cbrmale is saying about being able to decide on the theme if you plan ahead of time, but I find it much more interesting to drop myself in the mountains with an army knife and a canteen, rather than take the bus to Miami for the holidays. Or something. That was a pretty bad metaphor, but the themes I've discovered (i.e., stumbled onto) are typically better reads than the ones I've crafted with purpose. I think the strongest and most worthwhile themes/motifs/symbols come from our subconscious. That isn't an excuse to ignore trying to achieve depth in your writing, just I'd focus not on forcing it into a particular specification but rather letting it fill the cracks between your words. This is another benefit to rewriting a lot. Themes can be noticed on your first reread and then strengthened and connected to the rest of the piece during each revision.

cbrmale

I disagree about the need to not plan, I wouldn't write a report or specification without a plan, and certainly not a novel. As for themes, I come up with a concept first, and the theme is just a refinement of my subconscious thoughts behind the concept. That is, it draws whatever is in my head as a story to be told, and explicitly states it as something to be written about. So it is nothing more than what is stated above, I discover the theme by accident in the mountains, and then write it down so I can focus on it.

To me, the theme is what makes the plot hang together, and keeping the theme in mind makes the end product more coherant and integrated. The theme gives the story a reason for being, and while readers may not be able to explicitly identify the theme, they always identify the end product as a 'real' story.

I rarely see themes discussed on this forum, but I feel they are an important part of writing, and yet seem to be overlooked as part of a writers methodology.

mwd

I never said there was a need to not plan, just that he didn't need to plan if he didn't want to. I certainly don't expect you (or anyone) to change methods, I was just saying what works for me. If someone's new I think they should try both, and see what they like better.

Yeah, and I guess the difference is that you refine your thoughts before writing, and I refine mine during and after.

You'll get no argument from me. I think theme is very important. Not quite sure what you mean by a 'real' story, though. I do think stories that operate on multiple levels, where the authour took a layered approach to the writing, often possess greater depth. I've always thought of theme as a big part of that, probably the most important part. It seems to me it's the glue that holds all the layers/pieces together.

cbrmale

The concept of a 'real' story is not one I considered myself, but it is one of two consistent comments I have on critiques from my work, including from my agent. The 'real' story is obviously the theme, so the readers understand that the story is telling them something.

A lot of contemporary genre-based writing isn't deep and meaningful, and there doesn't appear to be a theme, stories are reduced to collections of events and characters arranged in sequence. I aimed to get published by writing to genre, but I wanted to do better than the usual rubbish so I bent the rules as far as I thought I could go and the result is doing way better than I expected.

I am currently writing to a different genre with something that is either too far 'out there' or maybe excitingly arousing. In this work the theme is very explicit, maybe it goes too far and it might need to be toned down in parts. I'll have another look at it and maybe alter it. I am not a great fan of re-writing on a large scale, I plan to get my work right first time and then I fine-tune around the edges.

Arin

You basically have encapsulated my philosophy about writing, mwd. I discover things as I go along---that's what makes it exciting and meaningful for me as a writer (just as I hope a reader would feel). Of course, research does enhance your work, but even writing a story and then going back to beef it up with researched details is just an effective way to write as planning the whole thing out.

I think it all depends on who you are and why you are writing. If you have an agenda, obviously you can plan. But writing without knowing exactly what is going to come out is just as effective a process.

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Omnisu

I plan by writing the first draft. I remain unattached to the characters and the work, and I let what happens happen. If I have an idea, I don't worry about what it means for the overall story. I just write it.

And then, when the first draft is 'done' (I rarely finish them, it is usually to twisted and deformed to conclude properly) I throw it away. Then I forget about it for at least a month. Then when I come back, I usually have a real good idea of the major plot arcs and all the important bits and twists and I can smack together the plotline in moments, and pound out the second draft at a thousand words an hour or more.

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cbrmale

Those of use who are older and wiser are able to self-analyse ourselves better, and we don't need to write an entire novel-length draft to understand the hidden meanings in an obscure storyline that seemingly comes from nowhere. I am not being sarcastic, self-awareness is one of the advantages of maturity. So my first draft is virtually my final draft, and the differences between the two will be issues I may have with aspects of the storyline when I re-read it, or issues my wife raises when she reads it (and she is always right too). Literally no more than changing or replacing a few scenes here and there, and tightening up any slack writing.

This is the benefit of identifying the theme and planning the characters and plot in advance.

It works for me, and as a part-time writer I can produce two drafts of a final and relatively polished 70,000 word novel in around six months elapsed.

Omnisu

Perhaps. I've done it that way; the second draft is always carefully planned. Thats because I no longer have to be afriad of limiting myself, I already did all my experimentation the first time around. The time between the first and second draft is the largest single time span in the entire writing process for me, because it's chock full of research and plot doctoring and occasionally the first draft of something else. Often times, characters will change dialects, will change histories, and maybe even sexes, between pages in the first draft.

Also, it makes Nano obscenely easy when you write that way anyway.

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