Cliche endings - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Mike C · 01-12-2007, 12:17 AM

It may be a 'fashionable trap' in Oz, CBR, but in the UK it's correct usage. Otherwise, for example, we'd pronounce café cayf.

missmoopants · 01-12-2007, 01:01 AM

Actually, the Guardian's style guide says no accents on anglicised French words:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide...184841,00.html

Having said that, I would never ever leave the accent off (unless a style guide MADE me), and I'm Australian Otherwise we'd all be going to caifs and eating chocolate eeclairs,

MichelleWritesStuff · 01-12-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missmoopants

Hmmm, my least favourite ending happens in my favourite novel: Jane Eyre. How can she say "Reader, I married him" after being such a strong, independent woman? I really dislike this ending, even though it seemingly gives her what she's missed and wanted all along: love and happiness.

Because it was a different time, and different things were expected from women -- even strong, independent ones. What were her other options? St. John? Old maid status? If she'd ended up alone, it would have been a really downer ending for people at that time.

Also, he was "punished" for his misdeeds. (Symbolically castrated.)

missmoopants · 01-12-2007, 09:47 AM

Yeah, but Charlotte took the easy road with that ending, going for the popularity buck. Let's face it, the Brontes were brought up to be strong and independent individuals, and regardless of the pressures of the time, there were plenty of stories being written that didn't end in marriage (eg, Mary Wollstonecraft's The Wrongs of Woman or George Elliot's The Mill on the Floss although that might have been a generation or so later). I just feel that the character's values in that line didn't ring true with the rest of the book.

I do find the study of older literature over the eras really interesting: every generation judge books against their own set of values, so even my mum will view a book which I find outrageously sexist as quite acceptable. It's like watching James Bond movies....

aspiring · 01-12-2007, 11:06 AM

Are you suggesting that a strong, independent woman should not need love and security?

I consider myself a strong, independent woman. I am married. To me, the two are not contradictory - indeed, the one enhances the other.

missmoopants · 01-12-2007, 11:50 AM

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. In fact, I believe the opposite. I haven't mentioned "love" or "security" once so I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I *do* feel that the line "Reader, I married him" is totally out of Jane's character. That is all.

bob rulz · 01-12-2007, 01:58 PM

Cliffhangers.

Damn them!

MichelleWritesStuff · 01-12-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missmoopants

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. In fact, I believe the opposite. I haven't mentioned "love" or "security" once so I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I *do* feel that the line "Reader, I married him" is totally out of Jane's character. That is all.

She loved him. She was sorely tempted to stay with him even she discovered the wife. The only thing that made her leave was a strong moral code, and the knowledge that she could not be near him and not jump his bones.

Jane married him because there was no longer an impediment to their union. Bertha was dead, Rochester had showed himself to be a man of character by his attempt to save her, and God had brought down His pimp hand in judgement.

After the failed marriage ceremony, Jane accused Rochester of hating Bertha merely because she was crazy. Rochester responded he would still love Jane were she insane -- that her mind was his treasure, and even if broken it would remain his treasure.

Jane showed her love for Rochester by loving him even though his body was broken, and even though she had money of her own.

Charlotte also was in love with a married man, if I recall, so I'm sure that was not a conicidence.

aspiring · 01-13-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missmoopants

No, I'm not suggesting that at all. In fact, I believe the opposite. I haven't mentioned "love" or "security" once so I don't know how you came to that conclusion. I *do* feel that the line "Reader, I married him" is totally out of Jane's character. That is all.

I misunderstood what you meant then. But I still don't agree with you

I think the line is perfectly in character. Jane calls a spade a spade.

missmoopants · 01-13-2007, 05:04 AM

Yeah, I guess it just depends on your own personal viewpoint. To me, it's cliche, but I can also understand how you both (MWS and aspiring) see it as the opposite. Jane does call a spade a spade. I just wonder is she gave Rochester a piece of her mind about what he put her through before saying "I do". Also, I wonder if she would have married him had he not been symbollically castrated. To me, it feels as if it's a clumsy justification for her ending. But, that's just my viewpoint. It's still my favourite novel!

theflowerofcarnage · 01-13-2007, 07:57 PM

Thanks for all your opinions. Now I know what elements I should try to steer clear from and what works...

By the way, I didn't really like the ending to Jan Eyre either. She seemed so fiece and independent, but that line sounded like she caved in and wed him.

cbrmale · 01-14-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

It may be a 'fashionable trap' in Oz, CBR, but in the UK it's correct usage. Otherwise, for example, we'd pronounce café cayf.

No, totally incorrect, the one rule about accents is we don't have them in English. My second language is French (and I speak a bit of German), so I know accents, and I know they don't apply to any form of English.

accents
Use accents on French, German, Spanish and Irish Gaelic words (but not anglicised French words such as cafe)

I posted my advice to younger writers, because I think the appearance of accents on some French-derived words such as cliche is fashionably prententious (look, I speak French and doesn't it look cool!). But it is not English!

Of course if there is French dialogue or a French name in a story (Hélène), then use the accents to give it aunthenticity (as I do), but when crossing back to our Anglo language, leave the accents behind.

jeune-romantique · 01-16-2007, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Yes. Anything can be made to work, as long as the story preceding it is solid and the ending gives the reader what they want. What about the Wizard of Oz? At the end, Dorothy woke up and it was all a dream... or was it?

Also Ian Banks - The Bridge. All the action takes place inside his head, while he's in a coma. At the end - he wakes up.

Any story, with any ending, can be either cliché or classic - it's all down to how you write it.

I agree, but I need to point out, in 'The Wizard of OZ' book Dorothy really does go to OZ (and in later stories her aunt and uncle visit). It is only in the movie that Dorothy 'dreams' the whole adventure up because the people that made the movie felt viewers wouldn't be inclined to believe that it was real.

Adjective Ocean · 01-20-2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Also Ian Banks - The Bridge. All the action takes place inside his head, while he's in a coma. At the end - he wakes up.

CRAP! That was going to be the ending for one of my stories....Oh well, I should've expected it, as it seemed an interesting way to end a fantasy story.

bob rulz · 01-21-2007, 02:49 AM

There's a British TV show called Life on Mars that's sort of like that...where he goes back in time to the 1970s...only you don't know if he's actually gone back in time or if he's just in a coma.