HarryG

In 1996, I submitted my latest masterpiece to a major publisher, and to a famous literary agent. I got two rejection letters that broke my heart. I could have put that differently, but it wouldn’t have been truthful.

Being conceited and stubborn, especially as I had already experienced some minor publishing successes, I sat down at my Remington and carefully used two fingers to submit at least eight different applications to eight different literary agents and publishers. I blatantly copied sample material from current bestsellers, like John Grisham, Wilbur Smith, Jeffrey Archer, and others. It took me at least a year, and as I grew bolder, I even submitted sample chapters to Hodder Headline, of their current bestseller

I got at least 15 rejection letters, until one literary agent asked me to send them the full manuscript. I couldn’t, could I?

I had wasted a year, but my writing career was back on track. I’ve had a few rejection letters since, and some successes, but I would like to share my experiences with those who get rejection letters that break their hearts.

Dawnstorm

Reminds me of this stunt. Seems things like that happen time and again. Personally, I don't think it's wise to do things like this, as it's (a) wasting agent's and publisher's time (they could have read a serious sub instead), and (b) doesn't proof anything but that it's hard to publish your first novel (which everyone should know).

Being published has little to do with "literary evaluation". Good stuff gets rejected all the time.

HarryG

HarryG

Having re-read that article from the Sunday Times, published on the first day of this year, I feel sort of vindicated for my own experiment from all that time ago. Yes, I did waste publisher’s and agent’s time, but wasn’t the outcome worth it?

Shouldn’t we all know that the people we are sending our material to, can’t even recognise submissions from their own authors? They can’t even recognise books they themselves have published in their millions.

When the revolution comes, as it must, I’ll be signing up.

Stewart

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Mike C

No. You proved... what? That other people besides you get rejected. That agent A may not like work accepted by agent B. Wow. We never knew that.

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HarryG

I didn’t just succeed in proving that other people get rejected too, I succeeded, along with the Times investigators, in proving that, no matter how good you are, our current system is such that good writers (I’m not talking about myself here) are no longer spotted by the publishing industry.

I can’t make it plainer than that – if any of the current fiction bestsellers in today’s Sunday Times list were to try and find an agent/publisher – they would fail. Martina Cole, Andy McNab, Stephen King, Ian Rankin, Ben Elton, James Herbert and the others, all selling thousands of copies each week, right now, would be rejected by the establishment.

It needs highlighting because it’s wrong, and has been wrong for years.

aspiring

You have completely missed the point of the Times article, which dealt only with literary fiction, not commercial fiction. Times change, editors change. Books are now published which deal with sensitive topics which would have never been allowed to hit the shelves in previous decades. There are many different types of books and you cannot possibly apply generalisations such as the one above.

As someone who has recently been picked up by an agent and a major publisher, I resent your implication that I am somehow crap because the publishing industry can't spot real talent.

You are talking out of your ar$e. I cannot see what your experiment has proved except that you are an idiot.

Stewart

Are you using 'good writers' in the terms of 'woeful hacks'? The OED will no doubt be ecstatic that the have to pad their book out with that new definition.

We live in hope, eh? But there's no need to make anything plainer. We already know.
Sending extracts of Wilbur Smith to a publisher isn't going to highlight anything. That's not the way to do it. Write an article, see if a newspaper or magazine will publish it.


Time to stop being bitter, Harry, and write something worthwhile. Someone will spot it.

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Dawnstorm

Well, I might just as well see that as a sign of hope; that publishers are looking for fresh, unspent stuff. Not stuff that reads just like the bestsellers already out there.

And I bet all those bestsellers failed quite a lot before scoring their first deal.

I bet that there are more unpublished but publishable authors out there than there are slots for new authors in publishing houses. Given a minimum of quality, what gets you published is perseverence and luck. The more you set yourself off from the slush the better your chances, I do think so. And I wouldn't expect bestsellers to stand out; after all they'll have been copied a thousand times (some more successful some less). Who wants to publish someone who sounds like Stephen King, when Stephen King's already out there.

And why do you think that no-reply (or a form-letter, perhaps?) indicates that they didn't recognise the work? If they did, what would you have expected them to do? Take you to court for plagiarism? If I was an editor and recognised a book I had previously published, I doubt I'd take the trouble to respond. I'd either dump it in the waste (thinking it's a prank), or I'd dump it onto the reject pile and continue with my job. Especially, if this happens, say, once every two months (as the article proves, you weren't the first to have that idea).

Unlike aspiring, I don't think your an idiot. I just think your reading too much into the results. You have how many manuscripts to sell? Editors have to reject how many manuscripts a month?

These aren't all the reasons why experiments such as these really reveal nothing (I haven't talked about unsolicited manuscripts, or that you can't know what they've published instead, for example).

I must admit, when I read "literary evaluation", I was surprised to find a thread about publishing. I shrugged at the article when I first read it, too. All you can do is keep submitting, the same text to others, different texts to the same folks. Perseverence, and luck in timing. That's about it.

HarryG

Wow, I didn’t think that my little article would lead to a personal attack, especially using words like crap and arse, and that from a writer who has been successful in finding an agent and publisher. I’ll let silence be my response.

I’m not bitter, Stewart. I have had both an agent and a publisher for some years now, in fact I’m on my second agent, the first one died, unfortunately. As well as submitting Wilbur Smith, I submitted Ian Rankin too, and I admire his writing and success.

I won’t go on, I can live with crap and talking out of my arse, but it could get worse, couldn’t it?

Stewart

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aspiring

You were stating a personal opinion that flies in the face of fact.

Quote:

especially using words like crap and arse, and that from a writer who has been successful in finding an agent and publisher

So just because I'm published I'm suddenly supposed to take the moral high ground? Sorry, mate, I'm still human. Being published doesn't sanitise my opinions.

Quote:

I’ll let silence be my response

So shall I then.

Oops, too late for both of us.

HarryG

Aspiring, it’s not too late for both of us, may I take this opportunity to wish you every success with your published work.

Dawnstorm, you are a very perceptive person, I take everything you have said on board.

Stewart, how can you not have read Scotland’s currently most famous author? I studied Scottish literature many years ago, and I’m still, regularly, reading some of it now. And, it’s alive and well, and irreverent as always. I’m sorry, I’ve got to say this, has it got anything to do with the boy coming from the Scottish capital. I was going to use a smilie here, but I don’t know how to. And, thanks for the link.

Mike C

You succeeded in doing nothing of the sort. All that's proven is that there's no formula, no tricks, just chemistry between agent and author. And the industry is proving you wrong. There are many excellent writers getting published every day - the fact that you aren't one of them may, of course, sour your judgement.

There have always been good books - and bad - around. There's always beena struggle to get published. Nothing's changed. Just a new generation of paranoia.

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