Viewpoint - Page 4 - Writers Forum

Rob · 10-29-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Thomas

I, like cbrmale and mamma, do not like first person.

I find it frustrating having an author tell me that 'they' are someone else, in another place, doing something that I know very well they're not. Even though I know better, I just sit there and think 'No, Mr Salinger, you most certainly did not do what that sentence just said you did. You're at a computer, and you're lying.' I find it more irritating in fantasy, too, since it's more obviously 'lying'.

I'm not challenging your preference in any way, each to his or her own, of course, but two points are worth mentioning.

Firstly, if it's fiction, it's lies. Doesn't matter whether it's first or third person.

Secondly, you seem to have difficulty separating the author from the narrator. The author is not usually telling you anything in first person. The narrator is. When you read The Catcher In The Rye, for example, it's not J. D. Salinger who's speaking, it's Holden Caulfield. As such, and within the context of the novel, there's no reason to believe that Holden Caulfied is 'lying' (beyond the fact that narrators can be unreliable). The distinction is important. The narrator may express opinions and hold points of view that the author most certainly does not.

cbrmale · 10-29-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

While it's true that narrators can change, I think you mean to say that view-point characters can change. The narrator usually stays the same, although it's quite possible to have two (or more) 3rd person narrators relating the same story through the same point of view character, although that would be really hard to pull off.

In first person, and third person limited, the terms 'narrator' and view-point character are interchangeable.

***

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

There seem to be surprisingly many people who dislike first person narration. (Do you folks also dislike it when third person narrators comment on their stories?) I don't feel that first person stories by new writers are any worse than third person stories. It's probably that people who dislike first person narration are less forgiving for the flaws. And since more people seem to dislike first than third (at least currently), third person narration seems to have more general appeal.

My favourite authors tend to use all kinds of narrators. (3rd and 1st person distinction is pretty superficial, anyway.)

I think that everything else being equal, third person limited 'reads' better than first. That, plus third person having more market appeal swings it for me.

Dawnstorm · 10-29-2006, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrmale

In first person, and third person limited, the terms 'narrator' and view-point character are interchangeable.

If you're doing that, you're losing sight of narrative distance (the distance between the narrator and the view-point character).

In first person narration, the narrator and the view-point character are the same person, but most of the time the view-point character is younger version of the narrator (although there are differences).

In third limited, the narrator and the view-point character are different people. That's especially apparant if the narrator "momentarily pulls back to an omniscient view for a paragraph" (as you said).

If you told me to change narrators in third limited, I'd think about the narrator's word choice, style, motivation for telling the story; I'd certainly not think about the view-point character. I'd imagine a story, for example, where two narrators attempt to write a scene from the same characters point-of-view (perhaps, for a competition? perhaps, it closes with a first person account? Hm... interesting. I might try that some day...)

Quote:

I think that everything else being equal, third person limited 'reads' better than first. That, plus third person having more market appeal swings it for me.

As a reader, I don't find a noticable difference. Some stories work better in first, some better in third (whether limited or omniscient).

While there are certainly more third person stories out there, I find enough first person stories to read. And I do doubt that submitting first person stories (all else being equal) lessens your chance of being published.

Vee · 10-31-2006, 12:33 AM

This is just my personal opinion in addition to my earlier one. I find a lot of stories on WF are written in first person and I am not drawn them to at all. The notable exception being noir fiction.

Dawnstorm · 10-31-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vee

I find a lot of stories on WF are written in first person...

I just went through page 1 of the Writer's Workshop forum here:

3rd person narration: 15
1st person narration: 4
Posts that contain no narration at all: 1

Now, it's only one page, but I doubt that the ratio will go beyond 13:7.

How many are "a lot of stories"?

Vee · 11-01-2006, 03:52 AM

All the stories that drew my interest (via title) in about the first five pages of the forum from when I signed on.

Dawnstorm · 11-01-2006, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vee

All the stories that drew my interest (via title) in about the first five pages of the forum from when I signed on.

Now that's interesting.