Viewpoint - Page 2 - Writers Forum

cbrmale · 10-16-2006, 05:16 PM

I refuse to read books written first person, and I certainly would not write first person. I dislike it intensely, I find it repetitive and shallow.

For a writer, the two major advantages of third person are that publishers perfer works in third person and third person can be much more dramatic and suspenseful than first person.

Somebody asked for an opinion, I am giving mine.

mwd · 10-16-2006, 10:48 PM

Most of my short stories are in first person present tense. The rest (about a third of them) are in either third limited or third omniscient, in past tense. I've written one story in third limited present, which I like quite a bit but I can't see it as something I'll be doing very often. Third omniscient is probably the most fun to write. I'm working on a novel right now in third omniscient.

As for what I like to read, I don't have any preferences at all. I think it's silly to be annoyed by a particular POV or tense. If it's well written I'll read it. When I start writing a story I try to think of what POV will work best for it.

I think a lot of people get annoyed with first person because when a writer is using it there's a temptation to overuse internal dialogue, which can very easily lead to flat prose. But, really, first person can be as simple as third person limited with a few words changed and sentences restructured. It doesn't have to use any internal dialogue, unless you want it too. In fact I find there's something particularly interesting about first person narrators who don't have much internal dialogue, since you know that techincally you're in their head, but there's still that distance there because they're just doing things, not bothering to reflect or examine themselves.

mammamaia · 10-17-2006, 10:07 AM

it's not worth arguing over, kids... the key is that i was stating my own opinion only, not making a pronouncement chiseled in stone...

the preface 'i...find' means that's only how i view it... and yes, like cbrmale, who also finds it repetitive and shallow, as i do, i dislike it even when done by the best of writers...

that's a personal opinion... you're entitled to yours without being castigated for it, and i should be to mine... or not?

Pluie · 10-18-2006, 05:43 AM

I used to always write in first person, but now I prefer third

Kimba · 10-18-2006, 05:10 PM

I guess it depends on which medium you write for.

If you're writing a script, you can have the luxury of not worrying about which POV to write for because a lot of what you write will be in the second person - so to speak [ie for the benifit of the viewer].

Even if you do write in the first or third person, it'll be the director who will depend on which POV the end product is shown in.

mammamaia · 10-19-2006, 09:48 AM

sorry to disagree, kimba, but in a script, all the action, description, direction [= narrative in prose] must be written only in third person [and simple declarative present tense]... it's not giving orders or instruction, just describing what will be seen and heard onscreen... like this:

Quote:

Scott wakes suddenly at the sound of a gunshot and jumps out of bed. He goes to the window and peers out through a crack in the blinds.

second person would make no sense, since in a spec script you are not addressing the actors and technicians directly, camera directions being verboten...

first person would also make no sense, as you are describing the actions of others, not the writer ['we see' is a thing of the past, not done anymore other than by those who don't know any better or by oldtimers who won't give it up]...

when a character's POV is needed, it's only visual, as in what he/she sees, and is specified like this:

Quote:

JANE'S POV - Scott comes toward her

as you can see, the action is still written in third person...

that's the mandated standard in the us film industry, anyway... it may be different in australia's, but i'd be surprised if it was that different...

love and hugs, maia

ps: by the way, i see you've started a new forum for screenwriters and playwrights... i clicked on it out of curiosity and found a major typo on your intro page... it has 'fourm' for 'forum'... you might want to change that and give the whole place a good proofread, to catch other goofs that escaped notice... as a matter of fact, i have the menu page open to my left and can now see another one 'appropiate' [missing the 2nd 'r'] down in the 'asia/pacific' section... since 'courses and education' are being offered, spelling goofs aren't very good advertising

... m

mammamaia · 10-19-2006, 09:56 AM

pps: are you familiar with imdb.com's boards?... it's the busiest film writers [directors, etc.] site around... and www.twoadverbs.com is the best one on the net... scriptsales' donedealpro is also a biggie... should take a look, if you aren't familiar with them, as they're your new forum's major competition...

lisajane · 10-19-2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bheid1.01

why?

Why do people never think of second?

I write in second mainly cause no one ever does, and while it's a lot harder to write, I find it has a better effect when reading it aloud. I agree with everyone that it's a strain to read, but when read out, everyone in the audience can feel that they're the character in the story (for better or worse). The most positive responses I've had at readings are when I've done it in second person, rather than the usual first or thirds.

Kimba · 10-19-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

sorry to disagree, kimba, but in a script, all the action, description, direction [= narrative in prose] must be written only in third person [and simple declarative present tense]... it's not giving orders or instruction, just describing what will be seen and heard onscreen...

It's always been my understanding that to write in second person would be to write what an outside sees and hears. Writing in the third person includes the person's thoughts as well as their emotions which the viewer can't. Going by your example, I'd write in prose:

Quote:

You see Scott as he wakes suddenly at the sound of a gunshot and jumps out of bed. You see him go to the window and pees out through a crack in the blinds.

Obviously you wouldn't write it that way in the script which is why I included "so-to-speak" in my sentence but that's what the veiwer would see. While it may be written with a third person narrative, much of the end product will be in second person since you don't share the exact same emotions and thoughts as the characters.

At least that how I visualise it. I certainly wouldn't be writing this in my script:

Quote:

"I wonder what that noise is," he thinks.

Whereas, a novelist most likely would.

cbrmale · 10-19-2006, 09:06 PM

Scripts and screenplays are not novels, but the logical style is third person. You should recognise this example:

EXT. ITALIAN HILL ROAD. DAY.

A JEEP pulls out of the line and approaches the Red Cross truck containing Hana and the Patient. The horn blows and Hana looks out to see it contains her best friend, JAN. TWO YOUNG SOLDIERS sit up front, one driving, both grinning. Jan signals for Hana's attention.

JAN
There's meant to be lace in the next village - the boys are taking me.

HANA
I'm not sewing anything else.

JAN
(mischievously)
You don't have any money, do you? Just in case there's silk.

HANA
No!

JAN
Hana, I know you do!

Hana leans under the tarpaulin, holding some DOLLARS. The two hands - hers and Jan's - reach for each other as the vehicles bump along side by side. They laugh at the effort. Jan's GOLD BRACELET catches the sun and glints.

HANA
I'm not sewing anything else for
you!

JAN
(getting the money)
I love you.

The Jeep accelerates away. Hana sighs to the patient.

Suddenly AN EXPLOSION shatters the calm as the jeep runs over a MINE. The jeep is THROWN into the air. The convoy halts and there's chaos as soldiers run back pulling people out of the vehicles. Hana runs the other way, towards the accident, until she is prevented from passing by a soldier.

The introduction of the Juliette Binoche character in 'The English Patient'. I was paid to turn a screenplay into a story once, wading through 'closeup this' and 'pan that' and so on.

Kimba · 10-19-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Obviously you wouldn't write it that way in the script which is why I included "so-to-speak" in my sentence but that's what the veiwer would see. While it may be written with a third person narrative, much of the end product will be in second person since you don't share the exact same emotions and thoughts as the characters.

I think you missed that point I made. Incidentally, I've seen some scripts that have the following example:

Quote:

We see a car come up the driveway.

I don't know about you but it's not exactly a third person narrative because of the words "we see".

aspiring · 10-20-2006, 03:37 AM

Quote:

We see a car come up the driveway.

That is written in first person plural.

KyleColorado · 10-20-2006, 05:35 AM

I like Third-Person narration that reads with a First-Person persona.

Peter Thomas · 10-20-2006, 08:09 AM

I, like cbrmale and mamma, do not like first person.

I find it frustrating having an author tell me that 'they' are someone else, in another place, doing something that I know very well they're not. Even though I know better, I just sit there and think 'No, Mr Salinger, you most certainly did not do what that sentence just said you did. You're at a computer, and you're lying.' I find it more irritating in fantasy, too, since it's more obviously 'lying'.

I also feel uncomfortable being 'talked at', which is how 1st person comes across to me. It tells me how things are, and I'm supposed to just take it at face value, rather than giving me space to interpret and understand in a way that works for me.

The only 1st person I've ever liked is Sherlock Holmes, and I think that's due to: a) it's 'realism', and b) my lack of awareness of the way Mr. Doyle lived to compare it to that of his characters.

Maybe I'm also biased because I 'grew up' on 3rd person, but if I see the words "I said" in a book nowadays, I won't bother turning to the next page.

But - as it seems - each to their own.

Polartch · 10-20-2006, 08:24 AM

I know I'm jumping on this a bit late, but too bad.
I, for some reason, just can't stand first person. To me, it seems less realistic and less descriptive. I prefer reading and writing third person.
Just my opinion, no matter how worthless.