When to start submissions - Writers Forum

nelijane · 07-11-2006, 01:36 PM

Hello folks

I'm desperate to start submitting my novel to agents. I've completed the first draft and am half way through the second draft, which is a pretty comprehensive edit.

The thing is, I'm DYING to start sending off sample chapters to agents. Is it wrong to start now? Most agents seem to want the first two/three chapters + synopsis. They all state that normal response times are at least three weeks. In that time, I should be finished the whole second draft.

Should I stop jumping the gun and do it all 'by the book' or shall I go for it and get some material sent out?

Also, I was wondering today, is there a particularly good time of year to start trying to get an agent? I know that publishers often have a 'spring list' so does this dictate that a certain time of year is more favourable?

Grateful for your comments and advice as ever.

Nelijane

valeca · 07-11-2006, 02:09 PM

If it's only a matter of three weeks, as you mentioned, finish it first. You then have a little leeway in completion time, allowing for anything unexpected to creep up that could eat into your editing time--we all know life has a way of...well, getting in the way. You also have a complete and finished product ready at a moments notice, should you be asked for it.

Three weeks is a relatively short amount of time. Use that 'I want to send it off' excitment to drive you in completing the novel to your perfection. You really don't want to have to rush and end up saying, 'It'll do', rather than, 'I love it!'

It's often said that the writer should move onto a new project right away after sending something out to help with some of the anxiety that stems from waiting to hear back. Having a completed project will allow you to do that.

Mike C · 07-11-2006, 02:34 PM

Start querying agents when your book is perfect, not before.

Fantasy of You · 07-11-2006, 03:42 PM

You should send approx 30-40 pages- enough to get them interested. Then you write out what happens in the rest of your story without including speech, starting from where your 40 pages ends. You are supposed to use Times Roman Numerals sort of as a gesture of good will, but it is not a must... Make sure it is double spaced and the print starts from 1 inch each side of the paper.

If you disagree, don't tell me about it. It is what gives you the best chance.

Fantasy of You · 07-11-2006, 03:45 PM

Also, don't even think about getting an agent until you have a contract infront of you. When you do, then you ask agents- you are offered this, for this blah blah, are you interested. Generally, any agent who represents you before you have a contract infront of you isn't worth keeping. And when you have an agent, don't expect him to get you more money, he will simply sort of royalties and foreign sales ect.

They usually get 15%, but offering 10% is not unreasonable when you have a contract before you.

mwd · 07-11-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantasy of You

Also, don't even think about getting an agent until you have a contract infront of you. When you do, then you ask agents- you are offered this, for this blah blah, are you interested. Generally, any agent who represents you before you have a contract infront of you isn't worth keeping. And when you have an agent, don't expect him to get you more money, he will simply sort of royalties and foreign sales ect.

They usually get 15%, but offering 10% is not unreasonable when you have a contract before you.

It's a bad idea offering this as blanket advice.

It depends on the genre of your book. If nelijane is writing SF/F, then it's good advice, since a lot of SF&F publishers will accept unsolicited manuscripts. For most other genres, it makes more sense to try and get an agent first, usually, since publishers in those areas are less likely to read you unless you have representation. It really depends on the market and on the genre of your book ... you can't throw advice out like this without knowing what she's written.

Also, none of this has anything to do with the original post, LOL.

Getting back on topic...

nelijane, just think of what would happen if you get lucky and an agent replies to one of your queries in less than three weeks with: "Yes, sounds interesting. Please send a full manuscript!" ... and you don't have one ready? You've just missed out on a big opportunity. The agent will not be pleased to hear that "Oh, I just need to put a few finishing touches on it, I'll get it out to you real soon..." will they?

I know it's hard, but patience is the best attitude to have in this case. Good luck with getting your book published!

Fantasy of You · 07-11-2006, 04:49 PM

Ah oops, I did mean for SF/F sorry lol...

And yes it does... She wants to get work published. That helps. Even if it wasn't the question. And the rest stills stands for any genre.

Mike C · 07-11-2006, 06:04 PM

Fantasy, sorry, but you haven't got a clue.

Read the agents' submission guidelines. Unless they state different, at least take a stab at looking like a pro by offering your MSS in courier 12, double spaced, not TNR. You won't get rejected out of hand for using TNR but presenting a professional looking MSS will at least maake it look like you've done it before.

Some agents ask for a number of pages, some for chapters. Pay attention, send what they ask for.

Seek out a good agent before subbing to publishers. Most of the quality publishing houses will reject you unread if you're not represented. And contrary to Fantasy's wildly inaccurate information, a good agent will secure a far better deal than you can cut for yourself - assuming you can get one. An agent will charge you 15% usually in the US, 10-15% in the UK, and a good agent is worth every penny.

Before querying any agent, research. Check them on Preditors and Editors, google them, ask around. And if an agent ever asks you for money, hit him/her repeatedly with a stick until they stop twitching. Never, under any circumstances, pay either agent or publisher.

bryce · 07-11-2006, 07:14 PM

Good advice Mike,
Only additions I would make Nelijane are:
When you send your MSS, don't staple or bind it. Leave it loose.
Number each page and put your name and book title on each page.
Make your query letter short and to the point. The MSS will sell itself if it's good enough.
Don't forget an SAE if you want your MSS chapters returned.
Lastly, never give up!

When your MSS is ready - and ONLY then - send it off. And good luck!

Bryce

mammamaia · 07-11-2006, 07:40 PM

nelij...
ONLY valeca, mwd, mike and bryce are offering good advice... all from fantasy should be ignored as pure fantasy...

you can email me for a good ms format guide... fyi, times new roman is standard for only the query letter, synopsis, chapter outline... courier is the most universally acceptable for the ms itself, as mike notes...

all i'll add is that you shouldn't send out anything, till you've had someone knowledgeable look it over for mistakes... that includes your manuscript, which should be assessed for writing quality, as well as typos, et al., to make sure it's really ready to be seen ...

love and hugs, maia
maia3maia@hotmail.com

bryce · 07-12-2006, 01:48 AM

Never understood that...how come TNR is requested for query, synopsis and chapter outline...yet courier is (sometimes) requested for mss?

I have noticed that, increasingly these days, TNR seems to be requested more often for mss, though. Or is it just my misplaced perception?

Bryce

Mike C · 07-12-2006, 02:02 AM

Your perception isn't misplaced, I don't think. Courier 12 really is a convention more than anything else now, as all aspects of the typesetting process are now done electronically. Some publishers recognise that, some like to stick with convention.

Talia_Brie · 07-12-2006, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

nelij...
ONLY valeca, mwd, mike and bryce are offering good advice... all from fantasy should be ignored as pure fantasy...

I don't often agree with Maia, but as she is essentially agreeing with people I do agree with ... I'm confused. What was I saying?

Oh, yeah. The advise offered by Fantasy is pretty ordinary. Everyone else is right and she (?) is wrong.

I hope that sorts out the confusion. It sort of helps me a little.

aspiring · 07-12-2006, 04:47 AM

I have always subbed in Times New Roman and no one, publishers or agents, has ever suggested that I am using the wrong font. I have always used italics to denote italics too, rather than underlining. However, none of these formatting 'mistakes' has ever been mentioned in any of my 50+ rejections nor my four acceptances.

I think that as long as your ms is sensibly set out, the publisher will take your work seriously.

As for the original post, I agree with most of the others. Ignore 'fantasy' - my agent secures me much better deals than I could do myself and is worth every penny of her 15%. I had already published two books before she signed me up on the strength of my third, but I am in the children's fiction market where things are slightly different.

Lorlie · 07-12-2006, 04:48 AM

Hey NeliJ,

Do you own a copy of the 'Writers and Artists yearbook'? If not it is a valuable tool.
It helps with everything from submission suggestions through the whole gauntlett of getting published.

The very best of luck with the submission, can I suggest that you write the submission letter as though your life depends on it?
I sent my MS off only yesterday (Childrens book in rhyme and verse) and I have sent it directly to the publishing house for lots of reasons, however I do hope to go looking for an agent for my other work, so I will be very intersted to see how you got on.

Lorlie