flashback grammar??? - Writers Forum

Slugfly · 07-03-2006, 09:59 AM

I've got several scenes in my book that play out as I'm about to describe, and one in particular that I'm doing at this moment...

When I've got some sort of flashback (not necessarily distant flashbacks, the current one was a week prior to the 'present') how should I write the verbs?

I'm now using past perfect:
"On the way, Jesse had mentioned the beauty of the clouds in the sunset. Right away Serena had sighed and agreed and it had almost been romantic. But when Jesse had gone on to talk about the way the colors seemed to melt together like oils, and how the different tints of orange in the sky seemed to lay on top of each other like sediments Serena had grown silent and withdrawn. Had she not been able to see this? Had the beauty stopped where the details had started?"

The problem... this feels clumsy... too many repetitions of the word "had," it doesn't feel like an invisible word like "the" or "said."

If you're writing in past simple (He scooped the eggs up in his spoon) would you also write flashbacks in past simple (Jesse mentioned the beauty of the clouds) or do you use past perfect (Jesse had mentioned)?

If you use past simple, are you not concerned about the reader losing track of the time period?

If you use past perfect, are you not concerned that it appears and feels clumsy and repetitious? And also, if using past perfect, would you conjugate EVERY single verb this way?
ex:
"Jesse had gone on to talk about the way the colors seemed to melt together like oils"
or
"Jesse had gone on to talk about the way the colors had seemed to melt together like oils"

It's doing my head in bit by bit, as I often feel like I want to make references to the recent past or sometimes much larger references to the distant past.

edit: another question... how to return from a flashback cleanly? Can't very well say "meanwhile, back in the present," but it has to be that obvious...

aspiring · 07-03-2006, 11:49 AM

I would mix past simple and past perfect, as you suggest in one of your later examples, so in your excerpt I would edit in the following way:

"On the way, Jesse had mentioned the beauty of the clouds in the sunset. Right away Serena sighed and agreed and it had almost been romantic. But when Jesse went on to talk about the way the colors seemed to melt together like oils, and how the different tints of orange in the sky seemed to lay on top of each other like sediments Serena had grown silent and withdrawn. Had she not been able to see this? Had the beauty stopped where the details had started?"

In terms of returning to the present, I would leave a line break and then give a fairly obvious lead in the first line, eg 'Jesse sighed and drank the last of his coffee. It was no good reminiscing like this, he had work to do.' If you point up the first couple of flashbacks like this then you shouldn't need to keep doing it throughout the book. You have established that the story takes place in several timeframes; that should be enough to guide your readers.

Slugfly · 07-03-2006, 11:55 AM

Grooviness. This particular excerpt is a short flashback (pretty much all of what I posted) but there are some that are longer, one in particular is a few pages. I seriously dreaded making 2 pages of "He had looked over the church and had had had had had had..."

If anyone has anything to add, I'd love to hear more angles or ideas.

mammamaia · 07-03-2006, 06:30 PM

aspiring has come close to the solution, but still has more 'had's in there than are needed... and the way to end the flashback is correct... a line break should be inserted whenever you have a major change of time or location, regardless of whether it's a flashback or not...

you need to read more of the best novels by the best writers... do so and you'll soon see how past-within-the-past scenes can be written seamlessly, without the awkward overuse of 'had'...

imrhati · 07-03-2006, 06:37 PM

in my novel flash backs are very common and are important to the plot. I use past simple and italize it all plus leave and extra space. I think the tense all depends on you own style really.

mwd · 07-03-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slugfly

I'm now using past perfect:
"On the way, Jesse had mentioned the beauty of the clouds in the sunset. Right away Serena had sighed and agreed and it had almost been romantic. But when Jesse had gone on to talk about the way the colors seemed to melt together like oils, and how the different tints of orange in the sky seemed to lay on top of each other like sediments Serena had grown silent and withdrawn. Had she not been able to see this? Had the beauty stopped where the details had started?"

Yeah, that is awkward... not so much as because you're dumping in hads everywhere, as you're using hads where you don't need them.

Like at the beginning...

"On the way, Jesse had"

You've already specified when it's happening (on the way), so there's no need to use "had", really. "On the way, Jesse mentioned the beauty of the clouds..." reads better IMO.

Even worse:

"Right away Serena had sighed and agreed and it had almost been romantic."

Not only are you specifying that it's happening "right away", but you've tossed in two 'had's in the sentence. Consider revising out the right away (if you don't specify the time, readers assume you're telling them things in chronological order, and whatever you're saying directly follows the previous sentence. saying 'right away' seems silly to me for this reason, as does saying 'suddenly' or 'just then' and so on). Also, since this sentence is obviously linked with the previous one, do you really need to say had? I don't think you do. Consider changing it to "Serena sighed and agreed that it had almost been romantic." There's still one "had" in there, although I'm sure that even it could be removed with a little rephrasing.

Once you've established that it's a flashback, I don't think you need to dump more hads in, unless you're mixing present observations with the past retelling of the story, in which case I think that after some comments/present-day observations you should use "had" once, or maybe twice, just to let the reader know that you're moving back in time again.

Once you're in flashback mode, I don't think you need to keep reminding the reader that you're there. They'll assume the flashback lasts until you make clear that it's over. The main thing is transitioning in and out of it smoothly.

Kane · 07-03-2006, 10:02 PM

Another way to do flashbacks is to switch to present tense, and use italics.

Slugfly · 07-04-2006, 06:40 AM

These are some great suggestions guys, thanks much!