know any book that help you write a novel - Writers Forum

huxley · 06-26-2006, 04:39 PM

looking for book that help write novels(dialoge,narrator,plot structer,ect ..ect...)

Kane · 06-26-2006, 05:33 PM

Every novel out there will provide you with a clear example of things that work, and things that don't. The trick to writing well is reading a lot. If you want to write a novel, you need to be intimately familiar with novels. If you are looking for some pointers on grammar, style, etc. I would recommend Strunk & White's, "The Elements of Style." Stephen King also has a pretty good book called, "On Writing." There are others out there as well, that my provide you with insight or inspiration, but there is no substitute for reading, reading, reading...all the books you can.

mammamaia · 06-26-2006, 08:41 PM

agreed [mostly]!

the only books you need to read, to learn how to write good novels are lots and lots of good novels... the best ones by the best writers of all ages [which are not necessarily the most popular!]

to learn how to write anything well, get a strunk and white fourth ed. ... i don't recommend reading how-tos by other writers, but if you really need that sort of thing, the best ever written is james j, kilpatrick's 'the writer's art'...

while king is a popular author, a perhaps above-average storyteller, and indisputable horror schlockmeister, i don't consider him a 'fine' writer, nor even a particularly 'good' one, so wouldn't look to him for advice on writing as an art... but that's just my opinion...

my bottom line?... READ lots of the real thing, not how-tos... hugs, maia

Kane · 06-26-2006, 09:39 PM

Have you ever read King's "On Writing," Mia, or are you just speaking from bias?

mammamaia · 06-26-2006, 09:58 PM

admittedly just 'from bias' kane... as i thought i'd made clear enough, but perhaps didn't... bolstered by my having read most of his work and finding it substandard, as far as fine writing goes...

doesn't mean he can't teach well what he does less well, of course... but i'm not going to spend a pile of money on his book, to find out one way or t'other...

Kane · 06-26-2006, 10:23 PM

Whether you like his books or not, as one of the best selling author's in the US, I think any insight he might have would be worthwhile to know. There are very few 'fine' writers. Most of us fall somewhere in between great and terrible. One thing I like about King, is that he's sold hundreds of millions more books than you or I probably ever will, and yet he remains humble about it. He doesn't claim to be a great writer, and I certainly have never heard him talk down on other writers. I'd take his advice over yours any day, not that it matters, since you don't give advice on writing with violent content.

=)

mammamaia · 06-26-2006, 10:31 PM

true, on the last part, kne!... and, if one is looking for lessons in how to be a best-selling author and not an exceptional writer, then i'd have to agree his is probably good advice to follow...

Kane · 06-26-2006, 10:35 PM

Yep, yep... King is probably not exceptional, but he is definately good at his craft, which means he probably knows everythingt that you, I, or anyone else might know about writing. But, because I could be wrong, I indicated that there are other good writing books out there as well, even though I stressed the best way to learn to write is to read, read, read!!! Practice is good too, IMOSHO.

Mike C · 06-27-2006, 12:38 AM

Actually Maia I haven't read on writing either, and dislike King as a writer, but many writers I admire have said that On Writing is inspirational. I must get hold of a copy, I could do with some inspiration!

***UPDATE***

I've just ordered a copy from Amazon. I'll report back shortly (got a copy of Strunk at the same time, I've never owned one!)

Dawnstorm · 06-27-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

to learn how to write anything well, get a strunk and white fourth ed.

Quote:

while king is a popular author, a perhaps above-average storyteller, and indisputable horror schlockmeister, i don't consider him a 'fine' writer, nor even a particularly 'good' one, so wouldn't look to him for advice on writing as an art... but that's just my opinion...

The irony is that Stephen King, in his book, almost entirely relies on Strunk & White when it comes to actual writing. Most of what doesn't come from Strunk & White is anecdotal. Actually, reading King before reading Strunk & White would be a good idea, espicially if you don't like King, as it relativises the "rulemongering" tone of The Elements of Style.

Strunk & White at an early age results in King.

Rob · 06-27-2006, 03:46 AM

Forget Strunk and White. It's just another book on grammar and stuff. It has little to do with writing novels. Christ, there are so many books out there that will help you way more than Strunk and White and there are hundreds of books on grammar.

I've flicked through On Writing in bookstores and never been tempted, it always looked lightweight to me, but I add the caveat that I've not read it and my opinion of it may be distorted by having read some excellent books that left King's with little in it that would have helped me further.

Two books I would highly recommend based on experience:

Sol Stein, Solutions For Writers, Practical Craft Techniques For Fiction and Non-Fiction;

James N Frey, How to Write Damn Good Fiction, Advanced Techniques for Dramatic Storytelling. (Might go under a different title in the US).

Both of these are excellent. Stein also wrote:

Solutions for Novelists, Secrets of a Master Editor

which is also good, but I would start with the two above first.

The advice to read plenty is so true and can't be overemphasised. (And when you do, you'll realise that a lot of good fiction out there doesn't abide by Strunk and White in all things.)

Cheers,
Omni

Rob · 06-27-2006, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

my bottom line?... READ lots of the real thing, not how-tos... hugs, maia

This is poor advice. I'm sorry. One month with Stein's Solutions for Writers, or Frey's Damn Good Fiction, will teach you more than a year's worth of reading novels, by a very long shot, and that's assuming you can read a lot of novels in a year.

Cheers,
Omni

mammamaia · 06-27-2006, 04:17 PM

poor advice?... how 'bout just a difference of opinion?... i could call yours 'poor' but wouldn't...

cbrmale · 06-27-2006, 05:19 PM

I have read a few 'how to' books I borrowed from my library, sometimes specialised such as developing characters or writing sex scenes. I take in aspects that interest me, disregarding those that don't.

Obviously reading good fiction is an excellent way to do things. The problem is that there is so much poor fiction out there at the moment. Badly written, poorly structured, fanciful plot lines, cliched.

To write now in 2006 you need to write with a contemporary style, literly expression has changed over the decades. And yet, in 2006, there is so much rubbish. If you are to use contemporary fiction as a source for good writing, find some award-wining books with excellent reviews. And then you will be able to gain something from reading.

mwd · 06-27-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnius

This is poor advice. I'm sorry. One month with Stein's Solutions for Writers, or Frey's Damn Good Fiction, will teach you more than a year's worth of reading novels, by a very long shot, and that's assuming you can read a lot of novels in a year.

I think you're being way too absolute here, Omni. You could read through all the classics, and every good book written ever, and still end up taking little out of the experience. Whereas someone else could read a handful of good books, but read each one carefully, making sure to absorb all the nuances of the work.

I think the most important thing you can take away from a book is the authour's mindset when they were writing it. If you can get into their head, and understand not just why they wrote a certain way but how they did it, then I think that's more valuable than all the how-to books in the world combined (of course this takes a little more thought than reading through a how-to book and saying, "OK, now I need to develop theme since the book said so. Next I need to develop my characters. Then I will throw in a simile, and finally I'll wrap it up with a tension building chapter!).

How you read matters more than how much you read, IMHO.