know any book that help you write a novel - Page 4 - Writers Forum

Buddhapants · 06-30-2006, 04:46 PM

I feel very strongly both ways.

valeca · 06-30-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnius

Are you arguing semantics here, Selorian? What is the basis of your argument that no books can help you to write a novel? There are books that claim to do prcecisely that, and succeed in varying degrees. I'm assuming you haven't read every book of the type and concluded that none of them help.

.

Cheers,
Omni

Oiy, Omnius! You're ready to go off without taking a moment to let things digest. What Selorian means is, ultimately, a book won't help you write a novel. Only the writer writes the novel. No matter what claims a book may make, in the end, the determination of the writer to finish the novel is what it boils down to. A writing book is a tool a writer can use, but it won't write a novel for you. The majority of the help found in those types of books is useful in the editing process.

Rob · 06-30-2006, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeca

Only the writer writes the novel.

This seems blindingly obvious, and is consistent with what I said in my last post, but I don't see how that advances the discussion or addresses the OP's question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeca

No matter what claims a book may make, in the end, the determination of the writer to finish the novel is what it boils down to.

What boils down to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeca

A writing book is a tool a writer can use, but it won't write a novel for you.

You seem to be repeating what you said earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by valeca

The majority of the help found in those types of books is useful in the editing process.

This seems intuitively false to me, Valeca. In your own experience, then, which how-to books have you read that fall into the category of covering the editing process and which the writing process? Those that I've recommended to Huxley in this thread, which category would you say they belong to, and why? (I'm assuming here that you're familiar with them).

If Selorian's point is simply that how-to books don't write the story, as you suggest, then I would have to agree, though fail to see how it helps. If instead the point is that how-to books are mostly concerned with editing and not writing then I would have to disagree, and look forward to your justification. I do, however, challenge the point that appeared to be made earlier that no books can help you to write a novel. Writing a novel requires skills and knowledge that can indeed be gained from experienced editors and writers and conveyed in book form. That's certainly my definition of helping you to write a novel. It's a commonly held view, too, I have to say. And it's these books that will help Huxley.

Thanks,
Omni

ConorMB · 06-30-2006, 05:42 PM

This is not an insult or a joke, im dead serious cause ten bucks says it exsists
Writing For Dummies.
Again not an insult, but i have bought many of those bucks and they have been very helpfull. If... a little cryptic some times...
Cheers
(Im trying to find a copy of On Writing too... would it be with King's other works or in non-fiction?)

starslight · 06-30-2006, 06:49 PM

I've seen On Writing in the biography section at my library and in non-fiction with other books on writing in stores, so you may want to check both sections.

valeca · 07-01-2006, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

It seems he feels the need.

I do believe you're right, Mike.

Selorian · 07-01-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnius

If Selorian's point is simply that how-to books don't write the story, as you suggest, then I would have to agree, though fail to see how it helps. If instead the point is that how-to books are mostly concerned with editing and not writing then I would have to disagree, and look forward to your justification. I do, however, challenge the point that appeared to be made earlier that no books can help you to write a novel. Writing a novel requires skills and knowledge that can indeed be gained from experienced editors and writers and conveyed in book form. That's certainly my definition of helping you to write a novel. It's a commonly held view, too, I have to say. And it's these books that will help Huxley.

Omnius, this part demonstrates to me that you are the one unwilling to accept anyone else's opinions and feel the need to attack. It also shows me that you're not able to keep from debating a topic in an area that isn't for debating. Again, if you want to argue it, make a thread in the debate forum.

I will make one final post to clarify what I said and what I believe.

I don't believe anyone is arguing the fact that books such as the ones you mention can help you in the techniques needed to write. They can. Although, there are many books on the same topic out there by multiple authors. Each one of them approaches the opic on their own experiences and what works for them. What works for one doesn't work for all. That is the very reason there are so many books. Reading any one of these is not going to guarantee that you will be able to plot, write dialogue, create characters, etc. the way they present them. The writer has to find what works for them. There is no magic way to approach writing that is universal for everyone.

How-to books, no matter what they are about, are no more than the authors own experiences with the subject being discussed. Reading a book on mountain climbing doesn't make you a mountain climber. Reading a book on gourmet cooking doesn't make you a gourmet cook. They may teach you skills that help you in becoming those, but without actually doing them, you have bits and pieces of a bigger puzzle.

There isn't a book out there that will help you write a novel, as I already stated. There are books that will help you with aspects of what is needed to write a novel, but until you sit down and write, it is just bits and pieces. You can follow exactly what they say to do and still end up with just a bunch of words. The writer has to take what the books say, adapt it, and tap into themselves to write a novel. No book on the market can do that for them.

And if they use the mutlitude of how-to books out there, then they still need to read other novels to see how all the pieces fit together. So reading, to me, seems to be the final step in how to write a novel. That is why reading books is important for a writer.

And in answer to your question on my reading how-to books and coming to the conclusion I have: I own the entire Elements of Style serious put out by Writer's Digest Books, How to Write A Damn Good Novel, How to Write Science Fiction and Fantasy, etc., but none of them helped me one bit in the actual writing of the novel. All of them are good books with things to learn, but they are just tools. Even then, I had to take the information they gave and adapt it to fit me, because what worked for the author didn't work for me in exactly the same way it did for them.

This all seems pertinent to the OP's original question, simply because if they believe that any book detailing how to do the things they listed will help them write the novel, they are mistaken. They can read books that will help them with those areas, granted. Writing the story and completing the novel is much more than the sum of the parts though, and I still say that there isn't a book out there that will show them/help them do that. King's On Writing will help motivate and inspire, which is more than what most of the books you listed can do. Even it though won't sit you down in the chair and make you write a finished novel. That has to come from the writer themselves. That, Omnius, is a common view as well.

A_MacLaren · 07-01-2006, 07:47 AM

We can be a petty bunch, can't we? It's lucky writing is a solitary pursuit.

I don't really think that anyone can teach you how to write. They can tell you what they did to help them write, but you have to establish your own rules.

However, I did find Henry Miller on Writing helpful, but not for the reasons you'd think. I got very angry while reading his book, at his rules and predjudices, and eventually it forced me into writing just to spite him, despite being dead. The bastard.

Rob · 07-01-2006, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selorian

Omnius, this part demonstrates to me that you are the one unwilling to accept anyone else's opinions and feel the need to attack.

That's bullshit. You can delete my posts, but it's still bullshit.

Selorian · 07-01-2006, 10:21 AM

Since I have repeatedly tried to get this thread back on topic and people seem to want to continue on off-topic issues, I feel the need to close this thread. I hope the OP has garnered some decent advice from the comments made. Good luck with your novel.

If the discussion needs to be continued about what how-to books are and what they are able to do, feel free to make a post in the debate forum. I will personally approve it so that the debate may continue in the appropriate venue instead of hijacking a thread.