length of a novel - Writers Forum

usurper · 06-24-2006, 06:33 AM

I'm writing a romance novel and I'm aiming for 50 000 words. The thing is, i'm not sure if my outline is long enough for 50 000 words, so i force myself to write a certain minimum for each chapter. is this the right thing to do, because the last thing i want is to patch bits onto my novel later to increase the word count. i don't want a novella, i want a novel. is what i'm doing a good strategy?

Rob · 06-24-2006, 07:01 AM

You could include more scenes.

Ben · 06-24-2006, 07:07 AM

Off Topic:

Moved to Writing Tips & Advice.

kad barma · 06-24-2006, 07:53 AM

first off--i'm wholly unqualified to have an opinion, so please don't mistake my having one for anything significant, or even me thinking it's of any value. but, since you've asked, i do have a few thoughts...

i'd observe that more words are rarely better than fewer. (ironic i'd have this opinion, given the way i write, yes?). i figure, since most of us will never be poe, we're best off trying to follow eb white's example instead. (do you have a copy of "the elements of style"?) now, if only i could manage to take my own advice...

beyond this, i'm also often struck by the fine line between fascination and ennui. ever sit through a movie that was just plain too long, but you felt could have been really, really good otherwise? some stories just seem to have a length for which they are suited.

i know you don't want to write a novella right now, but perhaps either your idea could benefit from further development, or you could develop another one in its place?

Anarkos · 06-24-2006, 08:39 AM

The usual target length for a novel is about 90,000-11,000 words.

Adding filler is not a good plan, but anything under 50,000 words will be pretty damn hard to sell to a publisher.

aspiring · 06-24-2006, 08:47 AM

But Anarkos, does that apply to romance novels too? I'm wondering about the length of Mills and Boon books - often fairly slim volumes.

*toddles off to put book stats into Amazon, will report back*

aspiring · 06-24-2006, 08:55 AM

sorry, can't seem to find any book stats on romances. I would guess though that most of the 'standard' type of Mills and Boon romances are somewhere around the 50,000 mark. Historical romances can be much longer of course.

If you are seriously doubting that your current outline will provide enough word length, then I would suggest adding a whole new subplot.

usurper · 06-24-2006, 09:10 AM

with a subplot, does it have to affect the hero and heroine? and how would i do it? i mean, would there be seperate chapters for the 'subplot' and chapters for the 'main' plot? because right now the first few chapter are hero and heroine seperate, and then the majority are them together escaping or rescuing each other. that is a simplified explanation. but it would be great if you could explain further the subplot idea. i get nervous when thinking of adding one in, because it may detract from the main plot.

hotoynoodle · 06-24-2006, 10:52 AM

not familair with the romance genre, but i've always been taught less is more when writing. (although, i think it can tend to be a more verbosely flowery than makes me comfortable...) rather than shooting for words strictly to bulk up to a certain count, consider carefully what more words might and should convey. think of it as a dinner plate: the offering looks wan, but simply heaping on more mashed potatoes won't add any more interest to that lonely drumstick. however, adding some prosciutto-draped asparagus brings a whole new dimension and further sensory pleasure.

the suggestion of a subplot is a good one, and i've always enjoyed books where the developments in the lines of the secondary characters indeed influence the whole story. it may not be through direct impact, but causes a realization or a reassessment in how he/she relates to the "hero".

mammamaia · 06-24-2006, 06:18 PM

if subplots are foreign to you, sounds like you're not really ready to write a novel... what you have may just be an expanded short story and that's why you can't make it long enough to be a real novel without padding it, which is not a good idea...

first of all, when writing in the romance genre, you must follow the guidelines of the imprint/s you hope to sell it to... harlequin and silhouette and others of their ilk have very stringent parameters that must be followed to the letter, in order for them to consider a ms... you can find the rules 'n regs on the various publishers' websites, and a brief version in writers market...

you must also do your homework re word count... find out what is the acceptable min/max number for the genre and the publishers who specialize in it...

forcing each chapter to have a standard amount of words is not a good idea, unless that's one of the things those publishers insist on... each chapter should be as long or as short as its contents make necessary...

in sum, it seems to me that you may not have done enough reading of the sort of book you're trying to write... that's the very first requisite for writers... if you had, you'd be familiar with subplots and how they're interwoven throughout a novel's main plot... how they affect it and lead to a resolution for the protagonist/s...

there are websites for aspiring and practicing romance writers, where i'm sure you'll be able to find answers to your questions and help in learning how to successfully craft a novel of that type... imo, it would be a good idea to check them out...

love and hugs, maia

cbrmale · 06-24-2006, 07:48 PM

First up, as maia suggests, you need to research the word length for your market. Second, the main part of editing a work you have written is going through and removing every single redundant word. So don't pad, it doesn't work.

A novel is made up of a series of chapters, each chapter has one or many scenes and is a logical grouping of these scenes. Chapters should not be a word count.

Buddhapants · 06-26-2006, 01:20 AM

What about some inspirational books? I'm thinking specifically of authors like Og Mandino whose books are often very short affairs...most with fewer than 50k words. Ultimately, his books are fiction and I would consider them novels.

Is there a minimum word limit for a work to earn the right to be called "novel"?

To the poster that suggested that it would be difficult to sell a book that is less than 50k words long, what genre are you talking about, specifically? When I go to the bookstore I find many, many slim books of all different types. I'm sure you have more experience with publishing than I do, I'd simply be interested in a more thorough answer.

mammamaia · 06-26-2006, 08:20 PM

the minimums stated are to maximize the new, unknown writer's chances of having a ms accepted by a publisher... sure, there are exceptions to every rule of thumb, but to have the best shot at selling a book, one would be foolish to count on being an anomaly, right?...

here's one rundown on size [other sources may vary, but only slightly]:

Quote:

Novel: Generally any work of prose fiction over 45,000 words, ranging to about 150,000 words.

Novella/Novelette: Short novel averaging 7,000 - 40,000 words. These terms are often used somewhat interchangeably, although novellas tend to be longer, and novelettes shorter.

Short Story: Prose fiction of about 2,000 - 7,500 words.

Short Short: Prose fiction under 2,000 words.

Flash Fiction: (also known as sudden fiction or micro fiction) Prose fiction under 1000, 500, or even 99 words, depending on the market or guidelines.