Mechanics Question - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Mike C · 05-26-2006, 10:13 AM

Anarkos, as I said a while back, feel free to use them - or not - as you see fit.

If nothing else, the thread has helped Dawnstorm to refine her WIP. So it's been useful.

Dawnstorm · 05-26-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

If nothing else, the thread has helped Dawnstorm to refine her WIP. So it's been useful.

True. I had way too many semi-colons in them. Each one was "correct", but most didn't add anything that a fullstop (and sometimes a comma) couldn't do.

Writers have a style, and writers have bad habits. Semi-colons are not part of my style. So...

Btw, Mike C, I'm curious: what makes me seem female? You're not the first to make that mistake, and I doubt you'll be the last.

Mike C · 05-26-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnstorm

Btw, Mike C, I'm curious: what makes me seem female? You're not the first to make that mistake, and I doubt you'll be the last.

No need to whisper!

Your name - Dawn is a girl's name - I kind of assumed, Dawn Storm...

apologies!

Dawnstorm · 05-26-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

apologies!

Ah, a simple name-confusion. Thanks for the clarification. No apologies needed, I don't mind, really. (And I tend to whisper off-topic things. I can change that if it's hard on the eyes. And I'll point out that I didn't use any semi-colons in this post, just to say something on topic.)

Edti: Dawn Storm; I'll have to use that name in a story, once. Something sufficiently pulpy.

mammamaia · 05-26-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

If it's best to avoid them...why?

one major reason is that since it's so hard for writers to use them properly, it's even harder for most non-writer readers to know how to read them...

another is that they stick out like sore thumbs, are not 'below the radar' so to speak, eye-wise... so instead of making the writing flow along smoothly as we read, they cause an involuntary mental 'hiccup'... we're not used to seeing them in everyday reading [newspapers, signs, cereal boxes, etc.], so they don't just get automatically 'registered' like periods, commas, dashes do...

lastly, periods, commas, dashes really do do a better [as in more 'reader-friendly'] job in just about all cases, so it's best to use what works best, rather than get unnecessarily fancy for no good reason...

that's my take on 'why' anyway... maybe mike has some other good reasons...

hugs, maia

Non Serviam · 05-27-2006, 07:39 AM

It's not hard to find examples of bestselling, critically acclaimed 21st Century fiction which are absolutely stuffed with semicolons. One of my personal favourites, Perdido Street Station, has 4 semicolons on the first page of Chapter 1.

They're still best avoided, though - if for no other reason, you might meet an editor who shares some of the anti-semicolon views expressed in this thread.

Mike C · 05-27-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Non Serviam

They're still best avoided, though - if for no other reason, you might meet an editor who shares some of the anti-semicolon views expressed in this thread.

A very good point. No matter how much you want to buck the system, the system is what will kick your manuscript back to you with a reject letter.

I agree with Maia on the reasons why not to use. Plus I think they're inelegant, linguistically; it may be ok to graft one sentence onto another in circumstances like these, but it's rarely desireable in prose.

mammamaia · 05-27-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Plus I think they're inelegant, linguistically; it may be ok to graft one sentence onto another in circumstances like these, but it's rarely desireable in prose.

hear, hear!... consider that elegantly-worded rationale 'officially' added to my own list...

thanks [as usual], mike!... major hugs, m

mammamaia · 05-27-2006, 05:58 PM

yours, too, n-s!... ditto the hugs, m

Superlagg · 05-27-2006, 08:16 PM

The partial reason I don't use semicolons isn't that I don't know how to use them, it's that I dont know enough about the function they give to be able to use them correctly. The last thing I want to do is use incorrect punctuation.

garza · 05-29-2006, 10:21 PM

I have written for newspapers and magazines around the world and have never used anything but the half-stop and the full stop, the comma and the period. The exception, of course, is the interrogation point. Travel light, my boy, and you can travel far.

ghent96 · 05-30-2006, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Don't presume. Had I wanted the sentence to read that way, I would have written it that way.

I presume nothing. The word "But" cannot correctly start a sentence, but can correctly follow a comma.

Non Serviam · 05-30-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghent96

I presume nothing. The word "But" cannot correctly start a sentence, but can correctly follow a comma.

"But for the counterexamples, you could have been right."

I suggest that you don't pretend to be an authority on grammar in a writer's forum unless you're sure of your facts.

There's no reason why Mike C shouldn't write in fragments rather than sentences if he wants to, and I think his meaning was clear from the context.

mammamaia · 05-30-2006, 06:18 PM

'creative' writing is allowed much that grammar class teachers won't let pass...

if all novelists and other fine writers followed all the rules to a tee, we'd have no nobelists, pulitzer and pen awardees... writing would be so dull no one would pay to read anything, since it would all sound just like our textbooks that we do our best to erase from our memories the moment we get our diplomas!

Kamisama · 06-03-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

'creative' writing is allowed much that grammar class teachers won't let pass...

if all novelists and other fine writers followed all the rules to a tee, we'd have no nobelists, pulitzer and pen awardees... writing would be so dull no one would pay to read anything, since it would all sound just like our textbooks that we do our best to erase from our memories the moment we get our diplomas!

ERNT! WRONG!
I looked through my biology book for semicolon usage the whole semester. It was neat to see how a biologist would semicolons in educational material. I like to find a use for grammar and mechanics on <scienceforums.net>. It's nice that a scientist is intelligent; it is sad that he or she would be awful at writing a decent and proper paragraph.

I actually enjoyed finding and reading semicolons in Uncle Tom's Cabin. I thought the usage was interesting to see for once. The usage of semicolons before 'and' made me curious as to its usage. Also, the book is fiction. Holy crap!

I like to come across different punctuation usage and understand it. Maybe I'm just a psycho with neuroses and a decently sucessful scholar at science, but I like proper form and correct usage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

one major reason is that since it's so hard for writers to use them properly, it's even harder for most non-writer readers to know how to read them...

another is that they stick out like sore thumbs, are not 'below the radar' so to speak, eye-wise... so instead of making the writing flow along smoothly as we read, they cause an involuntary mental 'hiccup'... we're not used to seeing them in everyday reading [newspapers, signs, cereal boxes, etc.], so they don't just get automatically 'registered' like periods, commas, dashes do...

I would like to think part two causes part one.
We dumb down society by not using semicolons.
I don't believe I would have created this thread were there more usage.

Also, what is up with people using a dash in 'semi-colon'? o.O

This sickens me even more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

A very good point. No matter how much you want to buck the system, the system is what will kick your manuscript back to you with a reject letter.

The media always dumbs down the public by denying people the right to create a more intelligent and literate world. Sad.
I believe writing is simply writing. You can leave all the other judgemental anti-semicolon crap to poetry or children's books.

If I remember correctly, many people used semicolons in their letters during the 1700's and 1800's. Somehow people have stupefied and degressed with the usage of 'whom'.

We could totally bring this to debate and cut one another's throat.

Thank you all for contributing.