Et Cetera - Writers Forum

Dr Hobo · 03-05-2006, 03:02 PM

I seem to be writing it more and more lately, so here's my question: if I end a sentance with "etc." is it "etc." or "etc.."? It seems to me that "etc.." is the right one, but it looks too weird. Am I right?

mammamaia · 03-05-2006, 06:42 PM

weird or not, since it's an abbreviation, which has it's own period, it should be followed by the appropriate closing punctuation, when at the end of a sentence... same as with 'et al.'...

consider this... if the sentence was a question, would you leave off the '?' just because the abbreviation ended with a period?

Phouka · 03-06-2006, 03:21 AM

I can't find the reference, but since etc. basically implies the 'and so on' that ellipsis implies in this case, you shouldn't use both.

Etc. really means 'and other things', and should never be prefaced by 'and', nor at the end of a list started with e.g.

It does have it's own period, which leads me to wonder if the previous sentence should end with two periods, however. Which is the whole question of the thread. Hm. Didn't add much, did I?

[on edit] Never double up periods. If a statement ends with "etc." the period in the abbreviation does double duty, serving as the full stop to end the sentence. If, however, you need another mark of punctuation after an abbreviation, you can put it after the period. SO you can have 'blah, blah, etc., and other stuff' or 'blah, blah, etc.?' with no problems.

mammamaia · 03-06-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

I can't find the reference, but since etc. basically implies the 'and so on' that ellipsis implies in this case, you shouldn't use both.

...other than my idiosyncratic use of them, an ellipsis doesn't come into the debate, so i don't know what you're referring to there... a sentence-closing period following an abbreviation's period does not form an ellipsis, which is 3 periods in a row, not 2...

Quote:

Etc. really means 'and other things', and should never be prefaced by 'and', nor at the end of a list started with e.g.

...true, but what has that to do with the subject at hand?...

Quote:

It does have it's own period, which leads me to wonder if the previous sentence should end with two periods, however. Which is the whole question of the thread.

...yup!... which my post addressed...

Quote:

Hm. Didn't add much, did I?

...nope!

Quote:

[on edit] Never double up periods. If a statement ends with "etc." the period in the abbreviation does double duty, serving as the full stop to end the sentence. If, however, you need another mark of punctuation after an abbreviation, you can put it after the period. SO you can have 'blah, blah, etc., and other stuff' or 'blah, blah, etc.?' with no problems.

...sounds both logical and practical t'me... i may stand [sit] corrected on that one... see if you can find a relevant 'rule' somewhere, willya, so i can 'reset' my brain to the correct usage, if necessary?... thanks!... hugs, m

Dr Hobo · 03-07-2006, 12:24 AM

Wow! So I'm still at square one. Some say I'm right, others say I'm wrong. Sadly, I've recently read "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" by Lynn Truss, which is supposed to be THE book on punctuation. This really getting at me. I'll have to get the book from the library again. Then we can all be enlightened on this matter.

Mike C · 03-07-2006, 01:39 AM

When you let a single full stop interfere with your writing there's something very wrong.

Just write!!! Use 1 period or two. If you get as far as publication, their copy editor will sort it.

Phouka · 03-07-2006, 01:46 AM

I can't find the reference -- I copied that blurb from a website into my oneNote pages, but I didn't attribute it. Probably from here.

It seemed logical to me, though.

Hodge · 03-07-2006, 02:38 AM

Remember that Eats, Shoots & Leaves is a British book. They do things a little different over there. Over here, we don't double up on periods. I've never seen it, anyways, and none of my English professors have ever told me different when I didn't double up.

lisajane · 03-07-2006, 03:17 AM

If I've got 'etc' in a sentence with more words following, I put 'etc...'

If it's the end to the question, I just leave out the full-stop completely, so 'etc?'

And no one has ever criticised this.

mammamaia · 03-07-2006, 05:13 PM

a tempest in a teapot... i'm with mike on this... concentrate more on writing well and less on minor details like 1 or 2 periods!

Ejp414 · 03-07-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisajane

If I've got 'etc' in a sentence with more words following, I put 'etc...'

If it's the end to the question, I just leave out the full-stop completely, so 'etc?'

And no one has ever criticised this.

Eh, maybe no one has really fussed about it since it's so common nowadays, but technically an ellipsis should be three periods with spaces between them or, if ending a sentence, four periods with spaces between each but not between the last word and the first period.

For example:

"Wow . . . there's really nothing else I can say."
"The big heavy object hit his head, and his vision turned a quick dark. . . ."

While I agree it's not the most important part of writing, grammar actually isn't very hard if you spend a little time looking up the rules when you're not sure. And after all, if you want to be a professional writer, you should make your writing look professional too.

Beardedtroll · 03-08-2006, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Hobo

I seem to be writing it more and more lately, so here's my question: if I end a sentance with "etc." is it "etc." or "etc.."? It seems to me that "etc.." is the right one, but it looks too weird. Am I right?

From "The Penguin Guide To Punctuation" by R. L. Trask, p. 87.

"Note also that, when an abbreviation comes at the end of a sentence, only one full stop is written. You should never write two full stops in a row."

Note that this book deals chiefly with British conventions.