Where to start - Page 2 - Writers Forum

amusinglackoftalent · 01-24-2006, 08:50 AM

Maia and David, you both 'jolted' me with the first person pov proclamation. Though I agree with David one hundred percent about the pitfalls of first person I find I enjoy that pov a great deal myself. (I've also just started a large project using first person.) However, I am not against changing it because I have already had to use a couple of 'gimmicks' myself. But in this instance I'm like SxThorntonxS (damn that's hard to spell) I find the 'story' flowing quite well from a first person viewpoint. Maia, would you elaborate a bit more on the cringing editors and their aversion to first person? David, you as well, if you please. And I agree with Maia on having you on the forum. Thanks for giving of your time and advice.

slayerofangels · 01-24-2006, 08:57 AM

To be honest, I find it difficult to write in the first person, and I have great respect for those who can manage it.

mammamaia · 01-24-2006, 07:53 PM

the problem with new writers using first person pov is that they do it poorly, generally speaking... and, in most cases, it's not the best way to tell their story... sure, there are exceptions, but they're very rare... so, that's why editors shudder and cringe, when that opening line has an 'i' or a 'me' in it...

as a reader, i do, too... as does the majority of the book-buying public... unless a book is an outright autobio, most prefer to read third person... and publishing is a money-making business, so the majority rules...

davidray · 01-26-2006, 01:16 PM

I think the problem with first person is really simple: it constrains the story to only those things the protagonist is directly aware of without adding any additional benefit. Anything you can do in first person you can do in third, plus some.

The primary appeal of first person is the ability to show what a character is thinking, feeling etc. Well, you can do the same thing in third person just as easily. It's as easy to write "she thought blah blah blah," as it is to write "I thought blah blah blah." The difficulty is that from the moment you write "I" in your manuscript, you can never write about anything that the character "I" isn't directly aware of. It can be very difficult to build suspense, create detail, and do other things that are easy to do in the third person. It takes considerable skill (and practice) to pull this off.

So, what that means in terms of editors and agents first impression is that they immediately assume that a first-person first novel has problems in the areas I mentioned. Since they are looking for reasons to reject (not reasons to accept) this gives them one right off the bat.

Right or wrong, another reason they get turned off is because they get fifty manuscripts a day (slight exaggeration) from first writers and 2/3 of them are in first person POV and aren't very good, sometimes for reasons that have nothing to do with first person POV. The effect is a kind of guilt by association that is difficult to overcome.

That said, it's important to remember the basic rules of POV. You can't change in the middle of a scene, unless you're first person. Then you can't change at all!

amusinglackoftalent · 01-26-2006, 03:26 PM

I did NOT mean to hijack a thread here. There are times when hijacking can prove good for all however, and I hope this was one of those times.

I was nearly fifty pages into my 'project'. I stopped after I read this news on first person and editors. Though I have been around awhile I have yet to sit across the desk from an editor. (It is my aim to do so.) I also read a great deal about publishing and writing and couldn't recall having ever read this first person news. (Certainly not to say that I haven't read it, only that these worn gray cells seem to misplace a great deal more than they can locate these days.)

Yesterday I trashed my almost fifty pages and started over. I have to admit that it feels better already. With this said I want to add that the writing achievement I am most proud of was written in first person. Which leads me to say this: There is a time and place for everything. Now is the time for me to sit in the third person vehicle.

Maia, as usual I respect and appreciate your wisdom and advice on anything writing oriented. David, thank you as well for your enlightenment.

cryptika · 01-26-2006, 05:17 PM

I'm sorry as well, Adrienne, for "hijacking" your thread..! Hopefully it's proven interesting, all the same.. I know it has caused me to stop and think !

Thankyou David and Maia for your insight and advice here ! I think I might write two versions of my MS - one in first-person and one in third-person !

mammamaia · 01-26-2006, 08:05 PM

happy traveling in 3rd, amusing!... i'm glad to hear it feels good from the git-go...

hugs, m

SxThorntonxS · 01-27-2006, 01:09 AM

I will sum up the 1st person pov vs 3rd person pov discussion. It just depends on who you are and how you write. I tend to think that my first person writing is better than my third. At least for my style of writing.

davidray · 01-27-2006, 07:42 AM

Good luck to everyone! It's been a fun discussion.