What exactly is a "book deal" - Writers Forum

Avarice · 01-20-2006, 02:55 PM

I know that to really get your book looked at by a publisher now you need an agent or they just wont take any notice. And I know that an agent gets the best 'deal' they can because other wise they dont get paid but...

What exactly is a book deal?

I've been reading about authors that I am influenced by and how they began and one author was offered 300k for his second book to get it published with a certain company. Having said that his first was highly successful so I can understand why he would get such a high amount.

Does any one here know exactly what those book deals are about? Like are there different types. Like in my screwy mind I dont know if the deals are:

You get lets say 100k straight up in the contract that you sign and then the publisher publishes 30.000 copies of the book. And then if that sells your agent gets a new contract for you?

OR

Your agent argues for how much you get for each book like 3 dollars per book and then the publisher alone decides how many will be published and you just simply get told at the end of the month or 6 months how many have sold and how much you get?

I know people get all different deals and i hear of some really bad ones that theres no way a writer could make money from but I also hear about good deals where the writer was able to say "i'm a writer, and i dont live on beans!"

So yeah... any thoughts or insight?

Mike C · 01-20-2006, 03:51 PM

It's in an agent's best interest to get you a good deal because 10-15% of it is his!

Deals vary tremendously, depending on the publisher and the percieved potential of the novel. A friend had the immense good fortune (and talent, of course) to have her agent get 3 publishers interested, which culminated in them bidding for her book - plus the next two. She landed a 3 book deal witha respectably sized advance from a major publisher.

The advance is an advance on projected royalties. A writer will get, on average, a little over 50c per book sold. If you get a $100k advance (very rare for new writers, but not unheard of) it means that the publisher is confident of selling 200k copies - enough to cover the royalties they already paid in advance. The writer doesn't get another bean until those 200k copies are sold. After that, they get the 50c per book, quarterly. If the book doesn't sell enough copies, the publisher loses, but you don't pay the advance back. Poor sales will, however, affect the size of the advance on your next book.

so the deal is basically a contract to sign x number of books (or a single book) for an agreed minimum amount.

RedEurope · 01-20-2006, 05:22 PM

Better idea yet - just stop dealing with these people.

I stopped trying to negotiate with these people in about 1999. You are more likely to get blood out of a stone than objectivity out of a publisher.

mammamaia · 01-20-2006, 05:33 PM

so, what other 'people' would you deal with?... or are you advising all new writers to never try to get their work published?

sounds like your objectivity went out the window when you couldn't interest a publisher in your work... the problem may be more with the quality of your writing or its marketability, than with 'these people'...

RedEurope · 01-20-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

so, what other 'people' would you deal with?... or are you advising all new writers to never try to get their work published?

sounds like your objectivity went out the window when you couldn't interest a publisher in your work... the problem may be more with the quality of your writing or its marketability, than with 'these people'...

Are you talking to me?

RedEurope · 01-20-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

so, what other 'people' would you deal with?... or are you advising all new writers to never try to get their work published?

No, I am saying that if you want to do something - do it yourself. Think Le Bon (which we discussed the other day) only applied socially.

But add a further dimension - it is pointless trying to bother with people you can't deal with. People at Mecca talk more sense than your average publisher! So just don't bother with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

sounds like your objectivity went out the window when you couldn't interest a publisher in your work...

They wouldn't even look. I tried *talking* to these people and they are just arseholes... well most of them are.

On the flipside of the coin I have come to accept my above thesis through not being published and this has really allowed me a chance to perfect my work. Now I am ready with my own devices and optimistic for a bureaucratic free future, which makes life easier and all the better for it.

So I am going to publish the work myself - how I want it, not how they want it - and then, if they want to publish it later, they can see my own work and how I've done it, and doctor it up later, maybe as though I was a dead writer from the past.

I meanwhile would be satisfied that my own original versions still exist (hopefully); I will be sure to keep one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

the problem may be more with the quality of your writing or its marketability, than with 'these people'...

Call someone who cares.

Don't insult me, my writing is brilliant. Even our good friend "doktorcrash" could agree on that.

Mike C · 01-21-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedEurope

On the flipside of the coin I have come to accept my above thesis through not being published and this has really allowed me a chance to perfect my work.

Not ACTUALLY suggesting you're obtuse, but have you considered that you haven't been published because you were submitting imperfect work?

Quote:

Don't insult me, my writing is brilliant.

Sure it is. Those publishers are sure going to be sorry when you self publish. The entire publishing industry could collapse.

Trouble is, RE, that every time I read a rant about how whacked the publishing industry is, how you have to be a celebrity to get a deal, you have to know the right people, do this, do that, publishers don't like new writers, it's the system, not me...

It's always by guys like you, who didn't make the grade. Enjoy obscurity - it's what awaits 99.9% of self publishers.

Dresdor · 01-21-2006, 01:16 PM

RE, if you're so confident in your writing, go and publish yourself, there's a tonne of vanity presses out there waiting for your money.

To those serious about publishing, you need patience, be willing to work with publishers and agents, and be willing to put up with dissapointment and rejections. Publishing houses are business, you shouldn't forget that. They're interested in making money, and they won't publish your book unless they think it has a chance.

RedEurope · 01-21-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Not ACTUALLY suggesting you're obtuse, but have you considered that you haven't been published because you were submitting imperfect work?

Pay attention:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedEurope

They wouldn't even look at it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Sure it is. Those publishers are sure going to be sorry when you self publish. The entire publishing industry could collapse.

No, I will have the last laugh, because I will have achieved something great (for a solo artist) that I can be proud of and without bureaucracy. "He who laughs last laughs longest" - Masefield.

After that as I have already said with my own work published its future reprinting will not be such a bad thing. Even the most cynical and bureaucratic publishers will have something to go on. (In fact I am going to try and get professionally published if and when my work is published by me first.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Trouble is, RE, that every time I read a rant about how whacked the publishing industry is, how you have to be a celebrity to get a deal, you have to know the right people, do this, do that, publishers don't like new writers, it's the system, not me...

All the more reason not to bother with them then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

It's always by guys like you, who didn't make the grade.

Have you even read any of my work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Enjoy obscurity - it's what awaits 99.9% of self publishers.

LOL. You think I care? I have told you, life is frankly much better without these people.

Besides, as I have already said elsewhere, it gives me great comfort to know that I support the correct ideologies no matter how imperfect the world is. For example, Bolshevist socialism will help talented writers to get published and create new ones (as it is in socialist countries), only this time having learned from our mistakes, so there will less censorship and more positive memetics, which, coupled with a healthy government - i.e.: no purges and state paranoia - will have less people or "dissidents" wanting to criticise it, so no negative literature - i.e.: J. G. Ballard, Vladimir Sorokin - will arise in any case. We will teach people to read, produce great art and great music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresdor

RE, if you're so confident in your writing, go and publish yourself, there's a tonne of vanity presses out there waiting for your money.

Thank you for your support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresdor

To those serious about publishing, you need patience, be willing to work with publishers and agents, and be willing to put up with dissapointment and rejections.

Patience already I am not waiting another 7 years. If you want something doing right do it yourself. It is quite simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresdor

Publishing houses are business, you shouldn't forget that.

'Tis the problem in the first place, although mind you my own company now also makes me a businessman, a position I am not proud of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dresdor

They're interested in making money, and they won't publish your book unless they think it has a chance.

Hence all the more reason not to bother with them. Socialist systems will provide the means for new and coming authors to be published, capitalist bureaucracy on the other hand is not worth another second of my precious time.

mammamaia · 01-21-2006, 06:06 PM

hey, mike... "out of the mouths of babes"?... guess we're all just not in this guy's league... hugs, m

Mike C · 01-22-2006, 03:50 AM

And someone's in a timewarp.

Anyone relying on Bolshevism to make publishing fairer (I presume that means making the publishing system egalitarian - everyone gets into print regardless of ability) is going to have to wait longer than 7 years.

Superlagg · 01-22-2006, 07:29 AM

Wait, this guy actually thinks that socialism or Bolshevism will arise in human society and not fail? Long story short, people wont do jack unless they get something in return. Though not everyone functions this way, its just that the people who want this arent in a position to make it happen. Trust me, those forms of ideologies arent gonna be here for a long time, much more then likely a longer time then any of us or our children will live. Government wont just one day say "Hey! We're commies now! Lets have pie!" and go like that.

Now, as for the thread, if you self publish, you wont get much money out of it. If you dont get much money out of it, you cant get much out of our capitalist society. If you publish with a publisher, you may likely get money/fame/ect. out of it. If you get that out of it, you will get alot out of our capitalist society.

And there are some things that when you want it done right, dont do it yourself. Get someone else, they can handle it much better. This is one of them.

Avarice · 01-22-2006, 04:55 PM

for christ sake why do all my threads turn into communism. I can see you people, hiding behind Mike's fat ass with ur banners and work clothes. Why must u destroy MY threads I ask you. I just wanted to know about publishing, but then I see Lenin doing the kalinka and it all falls apart. * bursts into tears* Mia and I will never be able to have that love child at this rate.

mammamaia · 01-22-2006, 06:07 PM

hey, if 'mia' refers to me, bucko, you're way too late and a few brains cells short!... first of all, i'd have naught to do with a lad who's as verbally abusive in public as you're showing yourself to be, as it's a clear indication of worse to come in private...

secondly [and most importantly], at 67 and a mom of 7, i'm way past conceivability or inclination!

as for all the fooraraw over publishing one's own stuff, all i can say is that few self-published books ever get noticed and fewer still ever reach the best-seller lists... and even fewer ever make their writers any money... in fact, 99.9999% of them end up costing more than they can afford and never even come close to breaking even...

Avarice · 01-26-2006, 05:02 AM

oh mia you play hard to get but I'll catch you in the end, I'll lure you in with some cherry laxatives maybe...