You are good at critiquing! - Writers Forum

LouDog11 · 01-02-2006, 04:33 PM

Please do not take this the wrong way. I understand I'm new to the boards.

I’ve noticed many posts discussing the problem of people who plead for advice on their work, but don’t critique other works around the board. A common answer to the more experienced posters demand of “give to get” is that they feel their advice could be wrong and misguiding, especially when others on the board are far more advanced. I can go to a 9th grader for help on my 8th grade math, but a teacher would probably prove more sufficient. This is not true in this case.

I do not want to overstep my bounds, but I thought I could lay down some words of encouragement I feel are lacking in my search around the boards. I am new to the boards, and to writing all together, but I have repeatedly read, in one form or another, people reluctant to post their ideas and critiques of a work because of their fear of lack of judgment and expertise on writing compared to some of the gurus around. Without tackling the problems of self confidence, I would like to share my insight on why your advice may be more beneficial than a master’s.

Besides the concrete facts of correct grammar and spelling, and a few necessities in storytelling (i.e. the necessity of having, say, a conflict), the rest of the writing process is subjective. If you feel you lack the proficiency and capability to correctly fix the problems that follow clear-cut rules, please refrain from wrongly marking grammatical errors, unless, obviously, by mistake. The rest, however, needs your input.

Everything else comes down to pleasing the reader, and that’s YOU! Even if you can’t write, that does not mean you can not have an opinion of what is a good story. I can not sing AT all, but I know that some of the people waiting in line at American Idol are bad singers. I do not have the exact knowledge that the judges have, but I can at least put in my input as a fan of music. Please do not take this as an opportunity to force your opinions on others, especially if you dislike a story because it is “Romantic”, and you find that genre particularly dull and dry. What I am saying, rather, is give your two cents constructively.

You do not have to be an expert to explain why you did or did not enjoy something. I do not need to be an historical expert to critique a story taking place during World War II, nor do I have to be a grammatical expert to rightly fix the problems plaguing the piece. Talk about why you did not like it. What did it do for/to you while reading? Did you stop reading it? Why? If you thought the style was too dull and caused you to get bored with the work quickly, than this is constructive criticism that you can input. Let others worry about the ticky-tacky stuff if you feel you’re not as excelled in that topic. The author is trying to please an audience of readers, which you are a part of. You could have no knowledge of World War II and could think all the grammar is perfect, but can discuss that the story seemed to develop too slowly, or the characters were too bland, or their descriptions too short, too long, too detailed, not detailed enough, etc. Talk about why you were interested in reading in the first place.

People need the advice of “common” people as they are the mass audience the author is appealing to. A great writer might think your work is great, but what does that do if every normal reader in the world thinks it has unnecessarily complicated vocabulary and unrealistic, boring characters. Perhaps you believe that you could critique something negatively, but in actuality you misunderstood the author’s point. That is constructive, because you are telling the author that they are not coming off clearly, and need to rethink their approach to better encapsulate their point. Just being a reader can help an author understand that what he meant to put on paper may not actually be what is there. If everyone corrects his grammar and short story structure, the author will never know his main character is coming off sarcastic instead of bipolar. Tell them what you think as a reader as well as a writer. We are all readers. If you’re not a reader, than you’re definitely not reading this post, in which case I can safely say I don’t like you.

Now, advise away! Be sure to do it because you’ll find more people will constructively do it for you and we will all become better writers.

P.S. – Just an exemplifying summary: All the experts in the world can tell you why this toy is the best to buy for Christmas, but your kid can show you how much it sucks in 30 seconds. Be the kid – they make the market.

cbrmale · 01-02-2006, 05:50 PM

I found one way to get feedback on the novel I recently wrote was to circulate it to some friends, and my wife, and ask for some honest opinions. Now, being friends, they are going to a 'light handed' in their assessment. Nonetheless, feedback after I gave a girl a couple of chapters like 'I can't wait to read the rest' and 'I find myself sitting up at night reading the next chapter' gave me a warm feeling. I asked her for some specifics, and she raised a few issues in the MS that didn't quite work for her.

Going from her feedback, I circulated a revised version for more feedback from others.

The ultimate critique is professional assessment of a finalised manuscript. This may cost a couple of hundred, but if the manuscript is ready for publication, assessment will be worth the money.

First things first, even before you circulate, the author needs to be confident that it is a good story well told, the characters are well developed and rounded, there are no leaps of logic and everything is fitting together pretty well.

Sometimes, we may spend hours slaving over somthing wonderful, only to realise that it really isn't a story worth telling. Or its too long. Or its not well written. Sometimes we need to understand that such a work is part of the learning process, and if we understand where we went wrong, we can use the experience to produce something better next time.

We may not be expert writers, but we are all expert readers. We know what we like when we read, and what we don't like. We should be able to read our own manuscripts first before circulation amongst friends and get a feel that it is working out.

Anarkos · 01-02-2006, 06:06 PM

Good post, LouDog.

Cbrmale - Friends are the worst people to ask for criticism.

ross · 01-02-2006, 06:08 PM

I'd second that. Family and friends cannot really be impartial.

LouDog11 · 01-02-2006, 06:10 PM

Thanks Anarkos. I was inspired by your post on Titles for Critique posts, so right back at ya.

cbrmale · 01-02-2006, 10:18 PM

If you pick friends, you need to be careful. I don't pick close friends, I hand pick acquaintances. The girl who first read my MS doesn't particularly like me, or particularly dislike me either. We just happen to work in the same place. My wife is the best, 'cause she now knows to give it to me, warts and all. I'm not going to be insulted and she knows it.

I know other published authors in my city who swear they get meaningful feedback by 'hand picking' the people they send the MS to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkos

Good post, LouDog.

Cbrmale - Friends are the worst people to ask for criticism.

Hodge · 01-02-2006, 10:22 PM

Friends work just fine.

If they say, "fucking rad, man! Show me more!" then it's very good and they probably won't have trouble pointing out small instances that need fixing.

If they say, "oh, yeah it's pretty good... Nothing really wrong with it," then it's not very good and they won't offer up many suggestions.

Watching their face is a good idea, too. Figure out when they're lying.

Rhea · 01-03-2006, 01:45 AM

Yeah, friends are ok. If they really like it they'll want to read more and if they don't they won't really ask to read it.

LouDog11, I liked your post

Anarkos · 01-03-2006, 06:34 AM

Every friend I've shown my work to has all but masturbated over it. So, either I'm an amazing author (which I'm not) or (my) friends aren't good for criticism.

Raging_Hopeful · 01-03-2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouDog11

P.S. – Just an exemplifying summary: All the experts in the world can tell you why this toy is the best to buy for Christmas, but your kid can show you how much it sucks in 30 seconds. Be the kid – they make the market.

Okay that made me laugh my ass off because it is SO true. I'll forever cherish that line. Good job LouDog!