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Old 11-28-2005, 12:47 AM   #16
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Fuck is the oldest swear word! When "ass" referred to a donkey and "bitch" referred to a female dog, good ol' "fuck" was still an expletive.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:38 AM   #17
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My views on people complaining about swearing in books are exaclty the same about people complaining about sex in books:

You're doing it or you will do it physically, but you can't actually read about it?

Swearing fits in some stories and not in others. I haven't read much by Jane Austen, but I can't imagine Elizabeth or Jane Bennett swearing. When reading Wuthering Heights, I burst out laughing when Catherine said 'damn' with an exclamation mark because it seemed so out of place. In neither story I see swearing as taking away from the story.

But a story with everyday people my age of 20? The following line would sound completely stupid by one of those characters:

'Oh, dear. You hurt me. How could you do that to me?'

What would sound more normal is:

'Fuck! You fucking hurt me, you stupid bitch!'

Swearing has a time and place in writing, it depends heavily on the characters, setting and timeframe of the plot.
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:27 AM   #18
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A narrator should not be cussing, unless it somehow ties in with the story a great deal or if the narrator is trying to be humorous. I, personally, find cussing in stories to be really funny... within reason. If it's displayed every other paragraph then it loses it's meaning, and, if intended, it's comedic value.

I don't believe one person here could keep a straight face and say to themselves and the good people at this forum that "people don't curse a lot in real life." Honestly, whenever I am inflicted with some sort of physical pain, nothing is more gratifying than letting out a hearty "Fuck!" rather than "Gosh darnit!" Am I right or am I right?
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Old 11-28-2005, 07:35 AM   #19
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There's plenty in life that some would choose to expunge, if they suddenly became god. Bad language. Bad grammar. Violence. Sex, drugs, and probably even rock'n'roll.

But then take a novel like 'Trainspotting'. It's a very vivid story about real people, not paragons of virtue. Delete all the above. What would you have left?
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Old 11-28-2005, 10:14 AM   #20
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Its ever so difficult to use profanity and retain your reader's empathy with the characters.
I've been writing about a group of teenagers whose language is bound to be strong and peppered with slang. You could produce something entirely honest in reflecting both of those elements and create something incomprehensible to anyone who isn't 14. Which is fine if 14 is your target audience.
I'm having this battle as we speak. I've written one section in three differing versions and levels of profanity to try and strike a readable but honest balance.
I'm still not able to settle on one!
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:38 PM   #21
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I don't fully object to profanity in books. I look at it like when I am listening to music in that I hate it when it is used in an unintelligent way. To me when people use cuss words either for shock or because they can't think of another word to fill in the spot it's ridiculous. If the words are used in an emotional way then I understand them but when someone uses the f-word five times in a single sentence it's pathetic.

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Old 11-28-2005, 03:42 PM   #22
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I agree with that. But have you listened to the way children speak to each other when away from adults. How would you recreate that?
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:44 PM   #23
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it depends on what children, how old they are, and where they live... all children don't speak the same way...
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:52 PM   #24
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It all depends on the child I agree. When I was in grammar school I cussed all the time around my friends for whatever reasons and none were good. Now that I am older though I don't see the point in it personally but back to reading it or writing it in a story. It all depends on the circumstances of which the word is being used.

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Old 11-28-2005, 03:59 PM   #25
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Yeah I think thats my question. How do you capture the atmosphere of a rowdy group of 14 year olds and maintain your readers attention? I don't know that's for sure! Lol!

Last edited by ross : 11-28-2005 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:06 PM   #26
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"When people tell me that swearing is a sign of low intelligence or a small vocabulary"

I tend to quote that one line from Inherit the Wind, which I can't really remember

Although it does depend on the characters. Some people just don't swear -- I'll use myself as an example here (granted, this only applies to real life, so ;p)

Anyway, though, I've made note of this when I write. Some chars swear in their minds but not outloud. some in reverse. Some use very specific words to mean very specific (schizotypal :3) things.

I'll also note that the implications of the phrase "fuck you" are astounding. For instance, so much is left open. Who, exactly, is commiting the act? Or what, perhaps, if the person recieving is simply badly undersexed? Could it be taken as a compliment, perhaps, or some sort of consolation?

"Why don't any 19th century and even many 20th century classics use swear words?"

The church. That, and people as a whole swore less back then or something. Alternatively, you're just reading prudish old stuff. I mean, I'm pretty sure Joyce was relatively scandalous. And it's not like Naked Lunch or Lolita are particularly recent, either. If anything, a move towards vulgarity stemmed more from the romanticist... stuff of the 1800's. I think that was the movement? What was I Sing of Myself part of?

"which one will you vote for in the next election?"

Neither. They're sentences. They'd suck at running things.

Oh, and this is an amusing story.

I recently got the Blur album Think Tank. It's a parental advisory album. Here's what's funny. I can't figure out WHY. There's no swearing on it. I'm thinking it's one track that just lists a bunch of drugs -- without glorifying them or anything. Just LISTING them, basically -- and saying something like "Everybody's horny" at somet point. Has america gotten that prudish?

And WTF did the word "cuss" come from? That's a silly word. I mean, say it.

"How do you capture at atmoshere of a rowdy group of 14 year olds and maintain your readers attention? "

It can still hold their attention even if it doesn't make sense to them.
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:11 PM   #27
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Interesting... very relevent to me right now anyway.
"It can still hold their attention even if it doesn't make sense to them." I'm gonna have to think about that, thanks for the response.
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:37 PM   #28
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I persoally like swearing in a book. Some books are so freaking boring but if all of the sudden some one says "####" I start cracking up
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valeca
My father told me something when I was young and he caught me cussing. "You're an intelligent person. You should be able to get your point across without having to resort to something crass, and it makes you sound uneducated. If you can't, it's sad."

my feelings exactly. Only half a dozen people in the world have heard me utter a curse word in person..... but that said, as writers, your choice of words says a lot about a narator or character or even entire tone of a piece.


The predisposition towards cursing in our society is as much a tool as the curse words themselves. If I find the need for any such tools, I don't hesitate to employ them.
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Old 11-28-2005, 04:44 PM   #30
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it also depends on who/where/how old your target readers are...
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