past & present tenses. - Writers Forum

Raith · 11-22-2005, 03:43 PM

i know many people have this error/problem, for me its uber hard. anyone got advice on how i should go on fixing these tense problems? thanks!

suzakugaiden · 11-22-2005, 04:39 PM

Okay.

It hasn't happened yet - Future.
It will have been completed sometime in the future - Future Past. (Future perfect? Something).
It's currently happened - Present.
It's started, but hasn't finished yet - Past.
a past action that's been completed - Present Perfect.
A past action that's been completed prior to another past tense action - Past Perfect.

That's... really it.

BookLover · 11-22-2005, 11:14 PM

Welcome to the club, Raith. I too have the same problem. As I proceed with my story, I tend to switch between tenses. Earlier, I never noticed these errors on a re-read, now atleast I can notice one when I see one!

Somebody suggested the book 'Teaching tenses' by Rosemary Aitken. I still haven't gotten my hands on it, so I don't know how good it is.

mammamaia · 11-23-2005, 09:32 AM

the only way to 'fix' your problem is to first learn what the tenses are and how they're used in fiction [can be done just by reading, or via how-tos, or with a creative writing course], then study lots of the best writing by the best writers, to see how to stick to whatever tense you decide to write your story in...

Raith · 11-23-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzakugaiden

Okay.

It hasn't happened yet - Future.
It will have been completed sometime in the future - Future Past. (Future perfect? Something).
It's currently happened - Present.
It's started, but hasn't finished yet - Past.
a past action that's been completed - Present Perfect.
A past action that's been completed prior to another past tense action - Past Perfect.

That's... really it.

thanks, i know of that but i tend to switch tense like theres no tomorrow and its hard to catch them. i can find a few, but other people usually find more.

Quote:

Welcome to the club, Raith. I too have the same problem. As I proceed with my story, I tend to switch between tenses. Earlier, I never noticed these errors on a re-read, now atleast I can notice one when I see one!

Somebody suggested the book 'Teaching tenses' by Rosemary Aitken. I still haven't gotten my hands on it, so I don't know how good it is.

lol. doesnt it frustrate you when others can see it and you dont?

Quote:

the only way to 'fix' your problem is to first learn what the tenses are and how they're used in fiction [can be done just by reading, or via how-tos, or with a creative writing course], then study lots of the best writing by the best writers, to see how to stick to whatever tense you decide to write your story in...

is there a way that i can better catch myself switching tenses? i mean, is there a way that i CAN switch tense? like a flashback? all past tense, etc?

mammamaia · 11-23-2005, 12:01 PM

how to catch yourself in such goofs is a tough one... it really depends on how well you wield the basic writing skills...

as for how to do whatever, there's a way to do virtually anything with words... the point is to first have a good reason for switching tenses... then, to do it so it makes sense to the reader and does what you wanted it to do... i'm not sure what you're asking there, so i can't be more specific, sorry to say...

if you'd give me an example, maybe i could be more helpful... hugs, m

suzakugaiden · 11-23-2005, 01:43 PM

I know this may sound odd, but I'm not really sure how you could inadvertnatly switch tenses THAT much :/

Well, no. Is houldn't say that. I've changed tense mid sentence once, but it sounded really bizarre if I didn't (which confused the hell out of me when I looked back and reread it). Granted, that only happened once, as I've said. Already.

I guess it can get sort of tricky if you're writing first person and have to deal with object permanence.

I don't know. I'd have to see what you're doing.

Raith · 11-23-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

how to catch yourself in such goofs is a tough one... it really depends on how well you wield the basic writing skills...

as for how to do whatever, there's a way to do virtually anything with words... the point is to first have a good reason for switching tenses... then, to do it so it makes sense to the reader and does what you wanted it to do... i'm not sure what you're asking there, so i can't be more specific, sorry to say...

if you'd give me an example, maybe i could be more helpful... hugs, m

its a small intro but hey, still an example right?

Quote:

The morning came out of the shallow trees up on the high mountains but no sun was shown. A dull gray fixture was over the dense fog that had plagued the country-side that dawn. To the far east, there lies a small crystalline stream, flowing steadily downward some cliffs. Small fish, salmons in particular could be spotted splattering up and down the stream. You could see the tiny cracked marbles under the clear waters. And across the stream, myriad forests covered a tavern, ill-lit with cloud-like smokes coming out of the chimney pipe holes. The sounds of laughter reverberated off the thick dense trees and towards more trees up the mountains. Between the stream and the tavern was a sturdy bridge, wet at the bottom, and dry on the handles. You can hear the waterfall from the left side of your ears.

People, animals and creatures of all sort walk that little fragile bridge each day, to either get waters from the great mountains, chop down trees, or just go in the tavern, drink till hearts content and go home with just an empty pocket with some shells and silks inside. The tavern lights were very dim (almost no lights inhabit inside), and with the fog covering the lands, the tavern looked more gloomy and decrepit than it actually was. As mid day went on, the fog cleared out, birds chirped from all directions and bears roam out freely to get a drink of the water and go back to their slumber. And in other directions, bountiful trees and dirt.

Footsteps could be heard now, the creaking of the bridge echoing back and forth. The trees became more visible as a strange man dressed in a long dark green cloak, walked through the clearing mists. The queer lodgings of the wooden tavern overlapping one another seemed damped. The stranger walks towards the tavern. He noticed two people walking out with their shoulders holding onto a half-sided roasted pig (The pig was cut into two). It smelled very nice, even from an ideal distance.

"Come on, don't be so weak." The older-looking man yelled at the man in front.
"Okay, father." The young man in front replied.

The stranger was now standing at the doorway of the tavern, dim lights shown bypassing the dusty cracked windows. Opening the door he made a small creak, everyone in the room was laughing and having a good time. From the left of the room, a long narrow bar counter, people sat and ate peanuts. While in the middle, a row of clustered chairs stacked up one against each other, no one sat there. And at the far right some fellows, sitting down, drinking and talking to one another. The stranger walks in and the door closed slowly, which created another creak.

His dark green hood, covered down to his nose up, walked to the stand and sat beside some fellows. The bartender, holding the chalice of beer with his right hand, handed the beer to the cloaked man. "A cup of beer would cheer ye' up, lad."

With his head down, slowly rose upward, his red compelling eyes stared right into the bartender's hazel eyes and shook his head, "None thank you, kind sir," uttering under his low tone of voice, slamming his sword onto the counter. Turning his head aside, his hood still covering his face, the room, very dismal and dark. He glanced at a corner, where two men sat. Drinking and talking, their clothes in rag with their swords leaning on the table.

The hooded man grabbed his sword with his right hand, gripped it tightly and sat out of the high chair and grunted as he walked out of the tavern. Outside, as afternoon approached, the sun shown over the high saturated trees.

i have some people read it and they say too many tense change. maybe you guys could help? thank you!

mammamaia · 11-23-2005, 02:12 PM

yup!... there are... and other things needing fixing, as well... here's just the first bit [present; past; other]:

Quote:

The morning came out of the shallow trees [what's a 'shallow' tree'] up on the high mountains but no sun was shown.[did you mean 'was showing'?] A dull gray fixture [meaning what?] was over the dense fog that had plagued the country-side [1 word, not 2] that dawn. To the far east, there lies a small crystalline stream, flowing steadily downward some cliffs. Small fish, salmons [collective noun, no 's' for plural] in particular could be spotted splattering [means they were being mashed and parts of them splattered] up and down the stream. You could see the tiny cracked marbles under the clear waters. And across the stream, myriad forests [how could there be more than one forest?... and 'myriad' means 'various' or 'a vast number'] covered a tavern,[how can a forest or forests 'cover' a tavern?] ill-lit with cloud-like smokes [also a collective noun w/ no ending 's' needed, unless you're referring to slang term for cigarettes] coming out of the chimney pipe holes. [triply redundant?] The sounds of laughter [would only be one sound, no matter how many are laughing] reverberated off the thick dense [moe redundance... thick and dense mean the same thing in this context] trees and towards more trees up the mountains.[sound is reverberating off and towards?... reverberate means a succession of echoes, so this doesn't really make sense] Between the stream and the tavern was a sturdy bridge, wet at the bottom, [do you mean underneath the part one walks on?] and dry on the handles.[pitchers have handles, bridges have handrails] You can hear the waterfall from the left side of your ears.[???...we have 2 ears... one on the right and one on the left of our heads... what are you trying to say here?... and how can you tell how anyone will hear it, without placing them in some position relative to it?... what if they're facing the waterfall?... or facing away from it?... or turned to one side or the other?]

...so, that's just some of what needs work in the first paragraph... tense-wise and otherwise... hope this is some help...

hugs, maia

rmestre · 11-23-2005, 03:24 PM

Nice work maia! This intro needs a great deal of work. The picture I gather you have in mind is great, but the wording, punctuation, and sentence structure is off.

Aside from maia's wonderful comments, your lead in did not need 'The'. Starting with 'Morning' would suffice, as 'the' would indicate there is more than one type of 'morning'. You also overlooked the graduality of dawn, and made it seem as if instant.

There are other cases where you are too descriptive. You would think being very descriptive is a good thing, but sometimes you can lose a readers attention that way. Many times things can be implied without a point for point description.

'Outside, as afternoon approached, the sun shown over the high saturated trees.' Would be better simply as, 'Outside the sun is shining.' It tells everything the reader needs to now, the rest will be implied by the body of the story. It also gives a good finality to the end of the introduction.

You may also find it useful to use notes or such to lay out the story line, character bios, and other details. This will help the order of the story and give it a uniformity.

As mentioned your tenses are not too good, but you need to work on written perceptions as well. Meaning how you hear, see, smell, and taste things...with the corresponding feeling, implied emotion, or reaction to said perception.

mammamaia · 11-23-2005, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Would be better simply as, 'Outside the sun is shining.' It tells everything the reader needs to now, the rest will be implied by the body of the story. It also gives a good finality to the end of the introduction.

...while i agree that final sentence needs much work, since it seems clear the writer wants this to be in past tense [despite departures from it here and there], 'is shining' won't work... here's my take on that sentence... see if you agree, robert:

Quote:

Outside, [delete...where else does the sun 'shine'!?] as afternoon approached, the sun shown [did you mean 'shone'?] over the high saturated trees.[did you mean the trees 'high up on the mountain/hill'?... or the 'tall' trees?... and, 'saturated' with what?

...here's how i'd suggest trying this:

'As afternoon approached, the sun lit the tops of the tallest trees.'

...or, if you want to be more poetic,

'...the sun set the tops of the tallest trees alight.'

... that would imply the forest was thick enough that the morning sun didn't reach the ground [if that's what you wanted the reader to picture]...

rmestre · 11-23-2005, 03:46 PM

I really love this one '...the sun set the tops of the tallest trees alight.'

mammamaia · 11-23-2005, 03:48 PM

thanks!... i was kinda partial to it, m'self...

you can probably tell i'm an alliteration afficionado...

Raith · 11-23-2005, 03:51 PM

thanks for the critiques ill have to look at it very indepth. :]

Raith · 11-23-2005, 04:45 PM

alright, mammamaia, ive got to look at the paragraph and i looked hard. i tend to use "was" a lot, same with "were". so if i wanted the story to be present tense, i would have to replace the "was" to "is" or something like that?