Victoria Island

i think my character is likeable... you can see if you THINK she is likeable (although only 1st chapter is posted.) if you look in fiction thread. My story is called 'the trouble with justice' and its the first chapter.

i hope she is likeable, now im concentrating on ym seccond charicter who might seem bad, but will be good.

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Saponification

Sure. Lots of people liked Tyler Durden.

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Metta.

Victoria Island

who's tyler durden?

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In the battle between handbag strap and doorhandle, far better knacker your handbag than let the doorhandle feel its won ~ Kate Long - The bad mothers handbook

Jollster

Exactly. And Aimless is right, it's not that simple. You can't say you'll dislike a character on the basis they're a criminal... and nothing else.

The thing with books, or films or whatever, is you don't have to want to be friends with the character. As long as you can understand and empathize, to an extent, with them, you'll experience their ups and downs and wish them good. A lot of stories go down this route, where it's no longer as simple as just good guy vs. bad guy.

Have you ever watched The Sopranos? Tony Soprano's your typical bad guy. He's a mob boss, he commits murder, kidnap, extortion etc etc... But because you see the story from his side and go through his problems with him, you hope he does well. It doesn't cross your mind that the police should catch this nasty piece of work and throw him in jail.

It's important I think not to show that you're character is a good person but to show they've got a good side to them. If you show they've got a heart all you've got to worry about is not making them too one dimensional and ensuring the plot holds up around them.

Good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing this now.


ps. Tyler Durden is the main guy in Fight Club.

Victoria Island

i just watched the godfather tonight and i see your point. i deff think that he had a good intention -- although with his son im not so sure lol. but i do like the charicters even though they are 'bad' they seem interesting and it got me hooked.

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In the battle between handbag strap and doorhandle, far better knacker your handbag than let the doorhandle feel its won ~ Kate Long - The bad mothers handbook

lisajane

I don't think anything would completely turn me off a single character.

In any case, I don't think you should be asking whether your readers will like your character. I think you should be asking whether your readers will relate to your character in any shape, way or form.

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Monkey King

Plenty of good guys do bad things. In fact there are very few pure good guys, most heroes break or at least bend them. The key is to explain why they doing it. In the case of major sins like your character, I'd show a little bit of regret in the character's actions.

If you have the time and the ambition, read Led Miserables. Hugo is the master. His characters run the full gammut, you'll get the full moral range and a full range of readers reaction toward them. Plus it's just a great read.

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shadowseer

Sometimes I think you could read a book about a villian and love the villian, even though he wants to take over the world. Like Dr.Evil. I love Dr. Evil, even though I know he could kill me. Maybe.

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blankslatejoe

Even morally gray or bad characters can be likable:

prostitution: Lorena from lonesome dove
thievery: alladin
smuggling, brawling, killing, punching girls in the face: half the cast of firefly, han solo
drugs,cheating, whoring, manipulating helpless crazy people: MacMurphy from One Flew over the Cuckoo's nest.
foul language and mean disposition: ash from evil dead

It's your job to decide whether or not you WANT the characters to be likable, and then MAKE them so, despite whatever vices they may have. Sometimes those contradictions are what makes them likable, like in the cases of Lorena, Macmurphy, and ash.

A dislikable character can be as much fun to read as likable ones though:
A strong feeling from the reader of like or dislike will equally gain their attention.
Think of snape, scrooge, miss trunchbull

A teacher once told me: It's not your ethics that are bad, it is merely my perception of your ethics that is bad.

That said, to make a morally bad character seem morally good you either have to
a:show remorse
or, level the playing field. make those bad things seem...not bad at all!
like prostitution in Lonesome Dove becomes a way of life for those girls; it's a job. The question of the morality of it is never brought up in their lifes, since it IS their life. The moral conflicts play out in a different battlegrounds in that book; love, death, honor, family, etc.

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Squirrel

Fantasy might not be your thing, but Deadhouse Gates by Steven Erikson did something similar absolutely beautiful. A character is pulled down into drugs and prostitution and her personality becomes vile, but she is still one of my favorite characters of all time.

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midlandsmuse

Without giving anything away Tyler Durden is a main character in a book by Chuck Palaniuk called Fight Club. It might help if you read that book.

You need to consider other works were bad guys are good guys. A classic is, of course, Schindler's List. Schindler did indeed save Jews but let's not forget he was a war profiter and war criminal. However, Schindler was the "best of a bad bunch" and at least did some good. Maybe that's a tact to take.

Also in Fight Club Durden does some pretty bad stuff but again, he's the best of a bad bunch. That's one of the reasons we like Robin Hood. Yes he's a criminal but he's nicer than the Sheriff of Nottingham.

PM me if you get chance, I've got a piece that might help you.

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James T Palmer

It really depends. Both of my favourite (anti) heroes are rapists...

TriCloudStar

In reality, absolute good and absolute evil are ethereal. They simply don't exist. A pure character is cockamamie. Not to mention they generally make for boring reads.

Who says that people have to love the main character? I'm sure you've read The Catcher In The Rye by Salinger. I, personally, loved Holden Caulfield(it is scary how familiar he seems to me), but most people find him disgusting and disturbing. And yet, you can't help but read on. I say kudos to you for making a character such as you have. It shows that you have a better understanding of reality and literature than most of those maladroit wannabe writers (usually fantasy) who churn out garbage piece after garbage piece.

p.s. I haven't read your work yet, so the extent of my compliments are based on the limited knowledge I have ascertained in the above posts.

double p.s. You can't have possible realized it, having not read Fight Club, but asking "who is Tyler Durden?" is incredibly humorous.

TriCloudStar

I wrote:
Do you honestly see Vash as absolute good anyway? Rethink what you are saying.

Isis

Haven't you seen Star Wars?
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

There really can be no absolute good. Vash has his own problems, and his own flaws. They're just very burried and overridden by his good side. In reality, everyone has flaws, and you want your characters to mimic reality in the best way.

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