Some General Thoughts on Despair, Suicide, and Angst Poetry - Writers Forum

mswietek · 07-05-2005, 06:33 PM

I have been reading a lot of poems lately which focus on either despair, angst, or suicide (or some combination thereof) on the various forum boards I inhabit. I have come to some conclusions about them and thought it worth sharing. I always hesitated to put these thoughts under any one person’s poem as I thought it would be overkill and be seen as an attack on that particular poet. Now I am not claiming to be a poetry expert (of any kind), but I hope people will find some of this useful. So slip into your black turtleneck and lets get started!

Remember, You Have An Audience
All poetry has an audience, even if the audience is only you. Chances are, though, if you are submitting such poetry on forums and to friends, you want it to be read more widely. But most angst poetry is not considerate of its audience. When many people talk about their poetry, they talk about what inspired them; why they wrote it. While this is fine, the poet needs to also keep in mind why someone would read it. Some examples might be:

1) You want to evoke a similar feeling of despair, etc. in the reader.
2) You want the reader to empathize with the narrator
3) You want the reader to compare the narrator’s experiences with their to see that their lives aren’t so bad after all.

These are only three of many possibilities, but you get the point. Poems that are self-absorbed and wallow in their own pool of angst alienate readers. So check your motives. Are you writing the poem because you’ve got something to say, or are you writing because you have something you think others should hear? If it’s the latter, then good. If it’s the former, then what you may have is a nice piece of therapeutic poetry meant only for yourself.

You Readers Don’t Give a Crap About Despair
Truth is, almost no reader cares about angst or despair or fear. Nor do they care about love or joy. What they care about, are situations and characters which evoke these feelings in them. One of the most glaring issues of angst poetry, is that is often deals only in abstractions. Details are the life’s blood of all writing, and angst poetry is no exception. Using lines like “dark oblivion”, “empty soul in hell” actually does very little to create a feeling of angst. What it does, instead, is evoke a feeling that “This is supposed to be angst” which is very, very different.

Make sure your poem is more than just a collection of “angsty” phrases. Give us the situation. Tell us why the narrator feels this way.

Tulips Are An Angst Poem’s Best Friend
Imagine a picture of a perfectly black sheet. While it may be very dark, its also featureless. And boring. Now think back on much of the angst poetry you have read (and perhaps written). How much of it was one sentence about depression after another? Poems like these tend to just grumble along.

Now imagine that same picture with a tulip petal laying in the center. The contrast of the petal against the black will draw a lot of attention to it, making it stand out. It also reinforces the darkness around it. Its possible your angst poem could use a tulip petal or two. Here’s some ideas of how to do it...

1) A contrasting image (a light or happy one) to create a contrast with the despair
2) Thoughts of happier times.
3) Humor (dry or gallows) can work wonders.
4) A narrator with a sense of irony
5) A narrator who is self aware without being self absorbed.

I hope some people found this useful.

Michael

dannyboy · 07-05-2005, 06:48 PM

great points Michael - its all about contrast and balance and intent (and anything else you can think of).

mswietek · 07-05-2005, 08:04 PM

Thanks Danny,

I went through the Angst phase early on (does every poet do that?), and some of it makes me absolutely wince. I think its because there's a feeling that poetry has to be SERIOUS (TM), and despair and dread are SERIOUS(TM) topics. If you write about something happy (or mundane like a wheel barrow by some chickens) you are not being SERIOUS(TM).

At some point we should have a Bad Angst poetry contest where we can all bring those old limp poems into the light of day.

Michael

Ilan Bouchard · 07-05-2005, 08:37 PM

A good piece of advice, and well presented. I think it deserves a better place in the Writing Tips and Advice, for the Poetry section is meant instead for everyone's angsty poetry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mswietek

I went through the Angst phase early on (does every poet do that?), and some of it makes me absolutely wince.

Perhaps. I certainly did, but at least I purged my system of it. Here is one of those poems written long ago. I'm embarrassed to admit it exists, but hell:

How can I laugh when I have every reason to cry?
How can I love when I have every reason to hate?
How can I live when I have every reason to die?

Ouch.

Please don't stone me.

mswietek · 07-05-2005, 09:43 PM

Thanks for the comments, Ilian. And you are a braver man than I. I will have to dig out some of my more "choice" gems.

Michael

mammamaia · 07-06-2005, 08:51 AM

thanks for saying all of this for me, michael... i won'teven read anything that i can tell, from either the title or the first line, will be one of those 'poor me' things... i find it too 'embarassing'... you know, like a really dorky scene in a movie, where you have to look away, because you can't stand to see the poor actors make such fools of themselves?

i agree that it can be therapeutic to indulge in such catharses and i even urge people in pain to do so, but 99.9999% of such works aren't of any interest to strangers...

and, the writer being so emotionally connected to the content, the writing isn't of good quality most of the time... either because the person isn't a serious writer and is just venting, or because they're too caught up in the emotions to see the flaws in their work...

throughout the ages, there have been some wonderful works written about lost love and lives not felt to be worth living, but they're few and far between... and most are by already established masters of the written arts... to write an 'angsty' poem well takes the talent and skill of a seasoned poet...

all that said, if folks need to vent, whatever works for them is worth doing... and there's nothing wrong with sharing the results on a writing forum...

love and comforting hugs to all, maia

Destany · 07-06-2005, 09:06 AM

I too, went through the phase early. I will tell you that they weren't generally "poor me", some had to do with murder, others my cynical view of the world as a teen. They were more, writing exercices, to get used to putting feelings to paper. But they were never meant to have an audience, I knew no one would care to read them. My mother found them one day... and had me committed!
I write much better poetry these days, and haven't had any trouble getting them published. It's been a couple years since I've written one, but I think I'll go dig one up and post it so you can see where agnst poetry can lead one when they get over it and decide to move on to more palatable things...

mammamaia · 07-06-2005, 09:24 AM

so, when did you get out?

you were kidding, right?... if not, your experience would be a good object lesson for those who overindulge in the dark side!

love and hugs, m

Destany · 07-06-2005, 09:36 AM

No, m, I was definately NOT kidding. She pulled me out of school one day- I was fourteen, and took me home where I found my aunt, my grandma and a couple cousins. It was an "intervention" of sorts. Mind you, I had written nothing darker than anything I've seen on this forum, but it freaked her out.
After two hours of screaming at each other, I was up at Research Mental Facility being checked in.
Fortunately, I only had to spend two weeks, once I convinced the therapists (and they in turn convinced my mother) that I was a sane person and only wrote these things as mental exercises, to learn how to use verbs, nouns, etc in a bold descriptive manner. But needless to say, the whole experience quickly put an end to my self-mannered poetry, and month later, I had my first poem published.
Damnit to hell though, I can't remember where it was published and my copy was lost. It was called time, and the publishing put an end to my mother's peotic tyrade once and for all!

Anyway, I've posted a sample in the poetry section, of what "angst" poetry can turn into when people make them less offensive.

mammamaia · 07-06-2005, 10:38 AM

and i replied to it in the manner it deserved... go see what i said...

thank goodness they let you out, or you might have been a modern day marat or plath!

... as i said, a great object lesson for many whose work i see posted all day, every day on this forum and others i monitor... i hope they take it to heart...

i'll bet the experience gave you plenty of grist for your very talented writer's mill, though...

love and hugs, maia

shadowseer · 07-06-2005, 10:56 AM

i agree with you Danny....somewhat. Soemtimes despair can be the fuel for creativity.
My dad used to be a painter, but after he married my mom, he couldn't paint anymore. My mom asked him why. He said, because sadness fueled my art, but with you I'm always happy.

There's so many different fuels for creativity. Joy. Laughter. Sorrow. Loss. Pain. And mine, caffeine.

07-06-2005, 01:45 PM

Michael, I think your comments were extremely useful for those who are writing these types of poetry... or pretty much any kind of poetry.

destany... manoman--- i am so sorry you had to go through all that...

i think we all need to remember this is a forum for writers of all skill levels... and age levels... and part of being a teenage writer is going through an angst period... hell, part of being vodka is going through several angst periods a year.

i think it would be sad if we were discouraging anyone from posting their work on here, whatever the subject matter. after all, this is a forum for feeback to help writers of all levels learn and perfect their craft.

i find nothing wrong with posting helpful hints to the other poets here, but agree with ilan that it may be more suitable for Writing Tips and Advice.

i do enjoy reading other's angst... good or bad, really. i can always offer advice where i see fit... i enjoy poetry that involves the soul of the writer and their emotions. a lot of these pieces begin badly, but can soon be evolved into something incredibly beautiful... and that's a really cool thing to watch.

but anyways! that's what i have to say about that...

vodka

Destany · 07-06-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ms. vodka

destany... manoman--- i am so sorry you had to go through all that...
vodka

Lol, don't be, I'm not. It sucked at the time, sure, but it's something I can laugh about now. Besides, my highly unusual childhood (although some may find depressing, which is why I don't often share) is one of the things that makes my life charming. It certainly wasn't dull, and I believe it helps in my writing and painting and life in general... I don't mean to sound flip, but honestly, what point would there be to any of it if I couldn't get up and dust myself off and even laugh about it later on?

I agree, there are many styles of writing, each useful and meaningful in their own way. I like Micheals points, and truthfully, I don't particularly care to read about other people's abuse and hardships any more than I'd like to write about my own. I just don't have the stomach for it, but kudos to those of you that do.

mswietek · 07-06-2005, 04:36 PM

Thanks for the comments, Ms. V.

I wasn't trying to discourage anyone from posting anything anywhere. Its just that when I read angst poetry, they tend to have many common issues which prevent them from becoming as strong as they ought to be.

If people are posting these poems to the boards, I am assuming they want people to read it and react to it. If I could offer a small bit of advice to help them along in that goal, then so much the better, regardless of skill level.

Part of being a writer who writes for others and not just themselves is a requirement to look at their work from a more detached viewpoint. This can be very difficult to do with angst poetry, because it is so personal by its very nature.

Michael

07-06-2005, 04:44 PM

that is very true, but with a little nudge, they usually get there...

no disrespect meant to you, Michael, as i see where the post is coming from and i thought it was very well written and helpful.

vodka