English as a second language - Writers Forum

Kikster · 06-21-2005, 08:05 PM

I'm sure there's a lot of people here whose first language is not english... I was just curious if you guys always write in english, write in both english and your first language, or if you translate, or whatever....

so, if english to you is a second language: what problems do you have when you write? spelling? grammar? syntax? anything else? how do you solve them?

Drzava · 06-21-2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kikster

what problems do you have with using a language that is not your first?

Not being able to understand it

English is my first language, but I have that problem with others and I'm pretty sure no one can escape it...

Kikster · 06-21-2005, 08:15 PM

you're right that sentence doesn't make any sense... I'll edit it...

that's what happens when you write and talk on the phone at the same time!

mammamaia · 06-22-2005, 09:04 AM

i mentor a lot of writers whose first language is other than english, from just about any country you can name... and i find that all of the above is true... not necessarily in one person, however...

how those folks solve the problems, is to come to me for help... how others solve them on their own, i've no idea... but those who come to me are at varying stages of linguistic 'conversion' so i'm sure they've found a myriad of ways to get there...

i've tremendous respect for these writers, since i sometimes write poetry in french and know how hard it is to capture the 'tone' and idioms, as well as the grammar of another language...

it takes an enormous amount of courage and great dedication to try to succeed as a writer in a tongue you're not born to... kudos to all of you out there!

love and hugs, maia

Taxiday · 06-22-2005, 09:35 AM

The biggest problem with languages other than your native tongue is that there are huge cultural differences! Even within the English language. There is a huge difference in the outlooks of the British, Canadians, and Americans yet we supposedly speak the same language. A perfect example comes from jokes. What is humorous to one is a bomb for another.
In other words, while one may be proficient in the language, one has to be immersed in and understand the culture to be effective.

Ilan Bouchard · 06-22-2005, 09:38 AM

I've always wondered why anyone would bother writing in English if they could easily write in another language. English seems so crude to me, and so I don't know how others make an effort to write in English when I make an effort not to. I'm rather disappointed I didn't learn another language well enough to write with.

Then again, the grass is always greener on the other side. Regardless, languages like Latin, French, German, and Russian just seem like they're better suited for poetry and literature.

mammamaia · 06-22-2005, 09:40 AM

the most common reason is that they want to sell their writing in the american or british market!

Nickie · 06-22-2005, 02:56 PM

Hi folks! I suppose I can answer some questions here.

First of all, English is not my native tongue. However, I studied English Literature and Linguistics at university and took my master's degree in it. But I must honestly confess that I only learned the language by speaking & writing in it, and having frequent contacts with English-speaking people.

To answer the original question, by Kikster, I can say that I write an original manuscript in English, and up to now I haven't needed any help. Well, I do make the occasional mistake but they are not in grammar and not in structure.

I also write novels in my own language, which is Dutch (or Flemish). To answer Ilan's question: I do like to write in my own language, but find it harder than writing in English! And BTW, our language region is only a small one. That is the reason why I mainly concentrate on the English-speaking markets. So much more potental buyers!!!!

Nickie

Mada · 06-22-2005, 02:59 PM

English is my first language.
Then Spanish
Then Italian
Then Japanese.

I use Japanese in my writings, since most don't recognize it unless I use the Japanese letters (which I don't) and it sounds the coolest.

Kelhanion · 06-22-2005, 03:56 PM

My native language is Finnish English being my second. I've studied English at school - after all it's mandatory - and by watching subtitled English television programmes. And thanks to the Internet I read and use it daily, from time to time even more than Finnish. So it's safe to say that while my English is still far from flawless I can cope with it.

And then to the actual question. English is a language spoken by billions (?) of people. A writer expressing his/herself in it reaches an incredible amount of people from all kinds of cultures. Finnish, on the other hand, is spoken by about five million people - basically all of them are Finnish. So, what's my choise? Finnish.

I do about 90 per cents of my writing in Finnish. I have never really considered switching to English. Why? Because Finnish is my language. I am like a fish in the water when writing in it. I manage the subtle changes in tone, I know all the idioms an average Finn does, I can put my thoughts into words more easily in it, and the most important of all - I am able to create just the atmosphere I need. I don't mean that Finnish would be somehow better than English - how could they be compared - I just mean that Finnish is my cup of tea me being raised surrounded by it.

No matter how hard I tried I could probably never understand the difference between the Americans, the Scotts, the Irish, the Englishmen and the dozens of subcategories of the Englishmen well enough to build perfectly accurate prose using their different usages of English. That is something I can do naturally with Finnish. I know exactly how a Finn speaks and puts his/her thoughts into words - being one helps a lot.

After all I know only one kind of English and that's some kind of a horrible mix between British and American English. At school we were taught British English but most of us pronounce it like American English. Then there are the different words. I know that lift is American and elevator British, I think that color is American and colour British. I know some other stuff too - and then I happily mix all the different parts together as I come up with the words as I write. Like "the color of your humour is black". I can pretty badly imitate some accents and I'm not even sure what they are (and probably they're mixed up as well): "It's driving me nuts, aye".

So what that my potential audience is 500 times smaller. That's not something to worry while I'm still just dreaming of a writing career. If (and when) I get published, I'd be overjoyed by the dozens of readers I would have. It's quality over quantity. And if (and because) I'd be a popular author someone will do the translating for me and using his/her perfect bilinguality he/she will be able to convey my thoughts as well as possible to all you English-speaking friends of mine.

In the meantime I hone my English fiction writing skills by writing funny stuff right here on the Writing Forums. You never know if I am to translate my own work someday (God help me if that's the case).

And to Ilan: the feeling is mutual. Somehow writing in English is cool to me, all the sentences I write sound awesome. Maybe it's because while our native languages are to us merely tools for conveying the point (and naturally powerful and beautiful, too) writing in some other language is a form of art itself. It's like when a painter has to use brushes made out of live, squishy eels: he finds that his accomplishment, the piece of art, has taken more blood and tears and is therefore more powerful (yet ugly because painted with eels).

Ilan Bouchard · 06-23-2005, 10:49 AM

Eels? Interesting analogy...

angilic_devil · 06-23-2005, 11:18 AM

English isn't my first language either, but even though my school studies and most of my mates speak english, I guess no matter how you know another language, you still won't be able to speak it well.

I can say I'm a fluent speaker, but still, when it comes to writing, the biggest problem I have is:

1) Translating sentences from my language to english at times, which makes the sentences even more confusing. (Mostly, but I am trying to stop this.)

2) Basing my opinion as in my language. Meaning that I kind of think the sentence is well-structured, even though it is considered well-structured in my language but not the english.

Well, those are my main problems

I try and fix, but ergh, it still comes back to me

My main language is Arabic

Kelhanion · 06-23-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilan Bouchard

Eels? Interesting analogy...

Yes, it is. Stand in awe in front of my extraordinary imagination. In my country the man with the most squishy sealife in his analogies gains the highest respect.

Or not, I'm not sure :)

Kikster · 06-23-2005, 02:39 PM

the reason why I write in english is that I live in america now, and it would be a lot easier for me to be published here (I don't think it will happen any time soon, but you never know...).

I asked that question because I'm always curious about other people in my same situation, mainly because none of my friends are writers, neither here nor back home, so whenever I talk about my writing dilemma they are like "whatever, I don't know what you're talking about".

I do love writing in italian, but writing in english has become almost natural (I went to college here in the states, so I wrote plenty of studd in english)... still sometimes I go nuts because I don't like the way a sentence sounds in english, and what really pisses me off is that I have the same sentence in my mind in italian and it sounds beautiful, funny and witty...

that's it... thanks for your responses guys, they always help!