Structure - Writers Forum

tunaplanet · 08-22-2004, 08:44 PM

I have been writing for some time now although I have nothing officially written with the exception of a few short stories.

Here's my question. Is there a specific structure you all go by? I mean beyond the, "beginning, middle, end" thing. Like for example, in the "beginning" do you have a structure or guideline of things you try and complete? What about for the middle and end?

I have many ideas but I find myself getting frustrated with structure. I mean you can't just start writing. You have to have some sort of structure.

Any hints, suggestions and help would be much appreciated.

Eiji Tunsinagi · 08-22-2004, 09:19 PM

Heres how I do it, always first in an outline form. Always use scenes, which can be a chapter in itself or small parts of a chapter. These scenes from the begining, middle, and end.

The begining establishes what is to occur in the middle. It is a introduction and gradual build up. The middle is the start of the climax (or the actual climax, if your story is very short) and this either ends with a big even or is leading up to the biggest even in the story. The end is either the resolution, or the REAL climax. I usualy dont have the climax in the middle of my story, just the build up to it. The ending either solves the story or has a climatic even (if it hasnt already occured) and THEN solves the story.

I'm bad at explanations, but thats pretty much how I see it. I'm sure somebody else will DEFINITELY explain it better than that.

tunaplanet · 08-22-2004, 09:28 PM

I have read almost every book on writing. One of the ones I purchased was, "The Marshall Plan." That book is so confusing. It looks like it works but it gets extremely complicated. Was hoping for something a tad bit simpler to break it down.

No apologies about your explanation. Appreciate the feedback.

Eiji Tunsinagi · 08-22-2004, 09:29 PM

What do you mean by simpler? Explain more specific or less?

Havoc · 08-22-2004, 09:40 PM

So far I only wrote two finnished story's, though these were long, around 300 A5 page's. So I got some experience in structuring.

What I do is use the beginning to introduce the characters, the enviorment and a part of the overall plot. Use the middle as a place where all the action is and use the end as a small outro of one maybe two chapters.
For example. Lets say we have a story which you know will be around 15 chapters long, you use the first two chapters to introduce the story, the characters and the background of the story and the characters. The third chapter is used to make an overflow between the 'beginning' and the 'middle'. Thus this is the chapter where the character first gets faced with the plot of the story. From there you write everything that needs to happan in the story. The end can be one or two chapters long. Creating an outro to everything, like the final action scene to a story, like the police rushing in to catch the kidnapper or something. Then the verry last chapter can be dedicated to how everyone continued their life.

Thats how I usualy seem to structure my story when I look back at it. I never write with structure intentional, and you shouldn't either. Just let it flow and see what come's out. What doesn't fit can always be alterd.
On another note, the structure explaind above is just a real basic one, it depends on the length of the story, the kind of story, and most important, the style the story is written in.

Good luck with you story

. Hope this helped.

Eiji Tunsinagi · 08-22-2004, 09:45 PM

Hey, thats good advice. Mine sucked. You rule! I'm going to use the chapter advice.....but how many chapters do you know you'll have?

Havoc · 08-22-2004, 09:57 PM

Well, If you kinda know the story your going to write you can take a wild guese... if you don't you just make the intro as long as you think it needs to be. I just think that the flowing over from beginning to middle is something critical. You need to do that within a chapter.
To many time's I see things like this:

Chapter 3 (end)

And so John discovert docter bla was making the secret potion to control the world. And he had to stop it.

Chapter 4

John started his journey to the evil docters lab. Certain to stop his evil plans.

You can clearly see the big fat line here that devide's the beginning from the middle. And thats not supposed to happan, IMO... I think that is one of many keys to a good story.

Eiji Tunsinagi · 08-22-2004, 10:19 PM

woe...when you write outlines its in past tense? I always do them in present tense (too much screenwriting crap.....) anyway, can you give MORE examples of such things? I'm liking them.

Havoc · 08-22-2004, 10:26 PM

Hehe, sure but its kind of late now so Im going to bed soon

.

The past and present tense has nothing to do with structuring verry much, just small details, il tell that tomorrow

I can barely keep my eye's open at the moment. Il make up some more example's when I had a good night sleep

.

cdm · 08-22-2004, 11:27 PM

I've found the structure depends on what kind of thing you're writing. In technical, you establish the thrust of the book in a foreword. It's your basic "Write to an outline" form.
In mystery, you set up the crime. Introduce a few characters and/or the hero(ine), and present the puzzle.
In SciFi, it's better to use a prologue (particularly in a series) to introduce characters and lay a base for the story. I use prologues in most of my stuff, though some authors refuse to use them. Do what suits you.
The important thing is the hook, which should be very early. whatever, the first paragraph is all-important, in that the reader wants to read on.
Internal structure is defined by the author and the work. The coherence of the work must be maintained. Confusing the reader, except in describing confusion in the characters, will lose your audience.
Structure must also flow. Page one leads to page two leads to page three. Even writing from multiple POV's demands a coherent thread.

DawnMorningStar · 08-23-2004, 01:03 AM

I second what the others have already said. And an outline is ALWAYS a good idea. It's good to know how your story will begin, progress and end. I think there are instances when the rules of structure can be broken though. For instance, in the book I'm currently writing, many of the characters are introduced in the beginning, but there are also several that are introduced in the second act. It's just what the story calls for.

rashadow · 08-23-2004, 01:50 AM

Outlines are not always so good. Sometimes it is best to just write. Let the words flow, if you can complete a rough draft like that, then you can go back and add more structure.

But then again it depends on the story, there is no right or wrong way to write. If you read stories from other cultures you might find that the predominately occidental way of writing (begin mid end) is often thrown completely away.

In the end you should use whatever method feels the most natural to you. Experiment with different ways of writing or plotting or structuring until you find something that is yours.

Or you can ignore me completely, I am drunk right now and am really just rambling...

gabriella · 08-23-2004, 10:07 AM

Wow – structure. I never really thought about my structure, to be honest. To me, it was sort of like doing a puzzle: The border first, and then I try to fit everything else in it. It’s just a natural thing that I’ve never questioned.

But if I were to pinpoint my structure, I guess it’s the typical beginning/middle/end. What I mean by that is that I don’t recall ever having written something (unless it was a short story for school, and that was only because I needed to make the thing as short as possible) where I started with the action. Novels are my thing, especially trilogies. So what I usually do is, in the first book of the trilogy, I would dedicate that as a sort of prequel – something that led to the story, but doesn’t so much introduce it. The whole thing is an introduction. The second book is the starting of the main problem and all the subplots. And the last book is, well, the end.

But then, I don’t really follow that structure when I’m thinking of modern books. In those, I usually start with the main plot and don’t go much behind that. But then, when I write fantasy, everything is a trilogy. When I write modern stuff, it’s all just one book. So that might have a huge say in how I instantly form the structure of the book. The shorter something is, the more I tend to start with the main plot. The longer it is, I usually tend to go farther back.

Oh, and prologues are my life. I hate epilogues, though.

Havoc · 08-23-2004, 11:38 AM

Ok, someone requested my opinion about present and past tense when it come's to structure.
There isn't realy that much diffrence, just verry little details. You can do a tad more with structure in past tense then with present. Example.

Past Tense:

John got on his way to the castle. Thinking of how he would defeat the evil docter. What he didn't know was that in the nearby bushes, there were 3 guards, ready to jump.

Now, the last part is impossible to write in present tense. At least, I don't think you get a logical outcome.

Present tense:

John got on his way to the castle. Thinking of how he would defeat the evil docter. What he doesn't know is that in the nearby bushes, there are 3 guards, ready to jump.

Guese the way I wrote te present tense is a way to write it, not realy all that much wrong with it, just IMO that just doesn't make sence. When you tell a story after it happand (past tense and in third persone) you can tell stuff that is about to happan but which the character doesnt know about. You can use your third persone perspective together with the past tense to preview stuff for the reader to make things more exiting.
Yet, when you tell a story while it is happening (present tense and third persone) you can't possibly tell there are three guards in the bushes lurcking for John, becouse it did not happan yet.

Though, al this is opinion yet again and some ppl are bound the disagree with me, but ok. Thats how I look into it

.

Eiji Tunsinagi · 08-23-2004, 02:56 PM

When any of you write outlines or chapter synopsis, do you like to go into very exact details, or keep the outline vague, just enough to where when you get to writing it, its not like your restating the facts?