Eiji Tunsinagi

My story is long and confusing, so long and so confusing, I wont even start explaining it. Which is my problem. Its supposed to be a LOTR-ish series but is slowing getting to be too confusing....I sometimes have to look at my own stuff written down to remember bits of the plot. How would you present a story with a lot of indepth material because I dont think I can have a novel thats half flashbacks.

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moonandsun

Don't under estimate your readers. Do you understand it? If so, then the readers will as well. If you think it is to confusing, rather then "watering it down" and making it more simple try and weave in recaps every know and then. Say a charecter meets someone and feels the need to explain the story so far, okay, nothing that obvious but that way the readers can keep clued in. Good luck

-Amy

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eleutheromaniac

I find that flashbacks are in overused device. Avoid it when possible. This is why I like to keep my story's short and concise: if you, as the writer, can't remember it, then how can the reader? And if the reader can't remember it, then what was the point of writing it?

This isn't to say that this is true of all long books. War and Peace, for example. I don't remember ALL of it, but I remember most of it. This is because the entire book was poignant and meaningful. But I find that a lot of books are longer than the story they tell. If you're book is starting to get muddled, you might want to stop writing, and start editing, and then start writing again. Figure out what parts are inessential and cut them. I know this can be tough: I cut my book down nearly by half. But what you take out of the book is just as important as what you put in. Like they say in poker: it's not the hands you play, it's the hands you lay.

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gabriella

Flashbacks...my new best friend, lol.

I don't think they're in overuse at all. Of course you can argue and say "if you, as the writer, can't remember it, then how can the reader? And if the reader can't remember it, then what was the point of writing it?"

Novels are nothing like tv shows or movies - they're much longer to read and it's alot more work to take in than sitting down. With novels, every word counts, you have descriptions from flowers to facial expressions - readers aren't expected to remember one specific line. Sometimes flashbacks butcher the moment (as in cruel irony, since it's blatantly obvious that somebody is saying it intentionally) but when you have a character who says something completely innocently, and triggers a memory from way back, a flashback is in order because chances are, the reader won't even know what reference that careless remark made.

Granted, I'm only using those flashbacks in the second and third part of my trilogy - the first is packed with flashbacks, but those are because my character has amnesia and he has chapter-length memories scattered throughout the novel of who he is.

Getting back to your other point... I think it all depends on how you're looking at it. A long while ago this person made a post similar to yours (only his novel wasn't about flashbacks) and he had also posted his summary, insisting that it was way too confusing. I posted back after having reworded the entire summary until it was clear and neat, and far from confusing. It's hard for the writer themself to make a summary on their own novel - it's hard to know what to put in it, because to you, you've spent so much research on the littlest things, labored over the littles plots, that things are included needlessly and things are left out when they shouldn't be.

But I'll give you a tip: Have distinct characters. Different races, completely different personalities, and, most importantly, entirely different situations than what the other characters are in. I remember LOTR... I could never tell who was Pippin and who was Merry. They were the same and in identical scenes as far as I was concerned. (Hell, I still don't know the difference.)

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Eiji Tunsinagi

So should I leave things a mystery (like the largst aspects of the plot), and then just explain everything as I go? If I did that, it'd be much less interesting, because the flashbacks make up for most of the action scenes while the rest is a lot of hiding in bushes and drinking coffee (its a slight comedy)

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eleutheromaniac

If you feel flashbacks are essential, then use them. I find a better way is to subtly hint at past events, rather than just doing a flashback. A skilled writer will find a way to make the reader aware of something, without coming right out and telling them.

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rashadow

You should ask Robert Jordan how does he do it. If you ever read the Wheel of Time series you would know what I'm talking about. The man's plot is so bloated that even he probably doesn't know everything that's going on anymore.

Maybe you could plot certain aspects of the story to particular points, write them out as separate timelines from beginning to end. And each new plot thread can occupy a separate line. That way, even when they entertwine you will know what is and should be going on at any given moment.

If your book or books are enjoyable, people will have no problem holding on to the story. They might even dedicate websites that exist only to decipher your story and predict what will happen next and try to analyze every scene under the most powerful of microscopes (see Robert Jordan).

I hate flashbacks, the only time I can tolerate them is when at the beginning of a new book in a series they recap the last one.

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sully474

I don't really think that you can put too many flashbacks into a book. They only work well if they:

A: Explain something that needs to be explained ex:The sixth sense when you find out that the guy was dead from the beginning

B: Aren't too vague (unless they are supposed to be), otherwise they seem really pointless. You read them sometimes and wonder why the hell it was in the book.

C: Are interesting and memorable. You have to be able to remember them well for later on in the book, much more so then you would with just normal speech. I suggest that you always revise flashbacks more often then anything else.

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DawnMorningStar

In the book I'm currently writing, I begin in the present with a brief introduction of my main character. He is writing things about his past in a journal. Then it goes into the main body of the story and basically goes through everything from beginning to end, with the ocassional small break back to the Main Character as he jots down more thoughts about that specific event (these moments are rare so as not to upset the flow of the plot too much--usually they'll be at the beginning of a chapter if they're there at all).

In the end, the book is brought back to the present again where the final message is revealed.

Would this book be considered one big flashback then? And is that unacceptible to a publisher or the general reading public? I've seen many instances in which this has worked quite well and has helped draw me into a story, but I'm wondering how other people feel about an approach like this.

eleutheromaniac

That sounds similar to my book, the difference is that in my book the narrator/main character no longer has any sense of time or reality, so he doesn't know if he is writing about the past or living in the present.

That is not the same as a flashback: "Flashback is action that interrupts to show an event that happened at an earlier time which is necessary to better understanding."

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DawnMorningStar

Okay, thanks. That's what I figured, but I just wanted to make sure.

gabriella

I don't know if I'm getting this right.... the whole book is an entry in a diary about a story?

If that's the case, then it would be fine, so long as the story isn't nearly as vague as all diary entries are. I wouldn't see a problem with it, since many books are written while people are telling the tale to someone else...

"I hate flashbacks, the only time I can tolerate them is when at the beginning of a new book in a series they recap the last one."

I love flashbacks, but I hate dreams. =)

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Talia_Brie

The way I see it you can go two ways, try to explain the plot, or embrace the complexity.

Robert Jordan has gone for the second option. So does Stephen Erikson. In this method you basically rely on the reader being caught up in the book enough to want to read it again to understand everything. I'm pretty good at this stuff, but I read Stephen Erikson twice.

The key is having the story be exciting enough to draw the reader through it even though they might not quite understand everything the 1st time.

Another thought might be add an in depth glossary at the end of the book. If certain plot points are historically significant, then explain in the glossary or appendix the events surrounding it. In depth descriptions of characters and character groups might help. Showing tables that relate people to events can also be helpful, and they add a lot of depth to the book.

I don't know if that helps.

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Eiji Tunsinagi

Thanks. So its okay if the plot is complex, so long that I keep it interesting and want the reader to see the outcome and learn the story. Thats good. I can do that.

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"how will you go about finding that thing the nature of which is totally unknown to you?"

safari invasion

When I think about flashbacks, I think about how they are used in movies. I think the most effective way to do it is to start out at the present, then go back and lead up to how the character(s) got to that point. This was done effectively in Saving Private Ryan, Behind Enemy Lines, as well as Fight Club. It is a good way of tying everything together at the end, especially if you have a confusing piece.

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