Emma LB

Hi all!
I've been reading up on some creative writing theories and I would like to know if you think it's a good idea to not always stick to the 'rules' (I know they aren't proper rules). I haven't really started writing this novel, because it'll be my first one and so I wanted to plan it first.

The beginning I had come up with before I started reading these theories doesn't seem to be compatible though...
Please tell me what you think:

Fay, a king's spy, sneaks up to the tent of Elpenor and slits his throat while he's asleep. Elpenor doesn't die though, because he's immortal. Fay didn't really want to kill him in the first place and was upset enough about killing someone, and when the guy she just killed wakes up and tries to grab her, she's scared to death and faints. Uh... here I change point of view from Fay to Elpenor. When she wakes up she's bound and lying in his tent with Elpenor watching her. Elpenor wanted to kill her at first, but he thought he'd better listen to her first and talk to her and if he then still wants to he can kill her. So... they start talking and each tell their part of the story, so the reader finds out what has happened so far (about how the king threw Elpenor into jail and then when he escaped Elpenor joined a group of thieves, and how she used to be the king's mistress and bore him 4 children, but the king's sent her out on this mission cause he's looking for a queen and doesn't want his mistress around and so on...)

I could start with Elpenor's life before he was thrown into prison, that's what the theory seems to suggest, but I would rather start the story off like this... after an important change has already happened. The fact that the king behaves so abysmally and thows him into jail, makes Elpenor want to overthrow this corrupt ruler. But meeting Fay is also a turning point in this life so I thought it might be ok to start the story here too....

So, do you think I can break with the 'rules' in this case, or have I misunderstood the 'rules'.

Thanks for any input

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Wyndham

I do short stories and articles, not novels, but I think the best advice is still the same, and that is to grab your readers from the beginning. And the best grabber, I often find, is somewhere in the middle of the story. Starting at the very beginning by taking us through the main character's entire history is often the best way to make the reader put your book down and pick up something else, because they know there's a whole lot of reading ahead before they get to any action.

I'm not sure what rule you think that you may be breaking, but I'd say you're always best to start where something is actually happening. Just be careful when you do reveal the back story that it's done in a believable way. Don't have people telling each other things that they would probably already know, in order to reveal it to the reader.

Like Fay wouldn't tell Ephenor the entire history of the country. We'd assume he already knew it.

Spudley

What you're describing is a flashback, which is a perfectly legitimate way to write; you won't be breaking any rules by jumping around from one time to another, and more than you would be by jumping from one place to another.

The only thing you need to be careful of is that it's clear to the reader when those jumps happen, and when/where the story goes to when they happen.

Hope that answers your question?


More broadly, breaking literary rules in general is probably not a great idea if you're unsure of yourself; the rules (formal or otherwise) are one of the first things that a publisher will judge your story by if he reads it.

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Talia_Brie

I would have thought she's describing a flash-forward, but I suppose it depends on how long you are going to take to describe the back story after the failed assassination attempt.

If you are going to outline it all in one conversation, then be very careful because talking heads are boring.

If, however, you're going to start with the assassination attempt, almost as a prologue, then roll into the visualisation of the backstory until you catch up (i.e. over a number of chapters), then this can work quite effectively. Fiona MacIntosoh did it in Betrayal, and while I don't necessarily think that's a good book, it was an effective tool to get me reading.

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thelatemitchellwarren

If you want to improve in story telling
and experiment with your creativity
and explore the art's boundaries and
limitations, then break the rules.

If you want to sell books, then just
follow every last one to the tee.

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eleutheromaniac

Not true Mitch.

'Beautiful Losers', 'Generation X' and 'Tristram Shandy' are just a few examples of experimental writing that achieved mainstream success. And there are many books that have a large cult following. Hell, even Shakespeare invented words and did some things that hadn't been done before. Often, people succeed not in spite of experimentation, but because of experimentation.

(Resisting temptation to schill my book. Arggggh! CAN NOT HELP MY SELF ...... Augmented Reality. Coming Soon! )

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Emma LB

Thanks all!
That was my idea, yes, to sort of grip the reader with the assassination attempt .

Ah, thanks for that Talia Brie... can you tell me why you think it would be very boring to have them talk?
Do you think it might work if I had them talk to each other first for a bit before sort of... drifting of to the past events? So I start with the assassination attempt and then they start talking for a bit, not long, and then in the next chapter (sort of after this prologue) I just start telling the story from the beginning (way before the assassination attempt.

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fairygirlfairies

From everything I've garnered and learned from various storytellers is that the best way to capture the reader is to start with action. So having Fay attempt to assasinate your hero (sorry can't remember his name at this moment ) is a great way to start your novel. Then you can have a flashback to what the king did to him earlier. Hope it helps.


-Faith

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Emma LB

yes, that's certainly a help, thank you. I was very unsure, because none of these theories mention starting a novel like this.
I was going to name my hero Alexander, but the friend I'm writing this book for hates the name Alexander apparently. So I had to rename him... Elpenor was the only name we could both agree on . It's the name of a guy who falls of the roof of Kirke's house and dies (in Homer's Odyssey), because he's drunk.

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fairygirlfairies

Now I have learned something new.

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gabriella

I like what you have.... that way it makes both seem in the wrong, and it makes the reader think who's in the right... Elpenor or the King. Is the King evil for throwing Elpenor in the dungeon, and thus making Elpenor right to want to overthrow him, or is the King good and Elpenor evil?

If you start with the flashback... it's going to tell us who's the good and who's the evil one, and I like it better when we have to decide for ourselves, but that might just be me.

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Talia_Brie

In short, yes I think that would work.

I just think it would be better if you told the story, rather than the characters. And I didn't say it would be boring to have them talk, I said talking heads are boring. There's a difference, and the idea that talking heads are boring is reasonably accepted in most schools of film and literature.

Most readers like to see things happening, rather than be told. Show don't tell is another CW axiom. This isn't always correct obviously, but more often than not it is.

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gabriella

It all depends on how long she's going to stay captive. If it's just one day, then the odds are, Elpenor won't get into the dirty details of what happened to him to someone who tried to kill him. He won't even give away his intentions.

But, if she strains her ears, listens hard and eavesdrop on conversations, she could catch alot, and together with what Elpenor didn't care to tell her, all the girl has to do is put the pieces together.

That also depends on, like I said in the other post, who's good and who's bad... if Elpenor's bad, then the girl will escape and rat him off. If he's good, then the girl will escape and cover for him.

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Emma LB

Well, Elpenor is the good guy really, but Fay just doesn't really want to believe that the king is evil (he is the father of her kids after all...). So even though she she falls in love with Elpenor in the first part of the novel, she still keeps trying to talk him out of the rebellion and later leaves him (she returns again later though).
next bit is spoiler, hehehe:

Ironically Elpenor's attempt to overthrow the king fails, but unwittingly Fay causes the people to rebel against the king and he's killed, when a mob sack the palace.

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fairygirlfairies

The story sounds like it will be a plot twister. Those are the ones I can never put down.
Also, maybe you should develope the character of the king more. You know throw in hints of his cruelty. What do you think?


-Faith

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