Is too much derogatory language a turn-off in novels? - Page 2 - Writers Forum

JustWrite · 05-25-2004, 11:29 AM

Shaggy,
That was the realest reply I've EVER read! Much props to you!

Listen folks,
What would a good novel be if it left you emotionless? Me personally, I want to read a book that'll leave me feeling hatred toward a certain character who swore too much (that's IF I didn't like swearing)! Or toward a character for being too mean! Or for simply being too dull! I don't want to pick up a book where EVERY character is super proper and polite. Boring! Very boring! Give me some action, you know? Make me feel like I'm being naughty right along with that vulgar-mouthed character who bullied everyone. That's what I love! I don't know; maybe it's just me. Nonetheless, I've learned some very interesting points from each of your replies. Thank you all so much!

"You can never win the battle if your mind is too weak to fight."
-Paula Edwards

Nazareth · 05-25-2004, 01:11 PM

noone's saying anything abvout being super proper or polite? there's plenty of ways to convey anger & rage without the use of such language- Personally you don't mind reading that stuff, But there are quite a few people that are put off by too much of that stuff - probably more than you would think-

We're just giving our views on it- There is indeed a market for vulgar books- but you isolate some groups by deciding to write exclusively for that one group in my opinion

~~He spun around, snatched Fred by the throat, and squeezed until the vien in his cheek stood out. Fred gasped for breath, clutching at the mans iron-like grip, and felt the world turn black.

Ian's nose was half an inch from Fred's own. His breath stank of garlic, and in his rage, spit flew from his mouth and covered Frank's face. "If you ever double cross me again, I'll rip your stinkin head clean off you pathetic scrawny little shoulders, you freak of nature."

Ian threw the runt to the ground like a used towel. Fred hit the dirt, and rolled himself to the gutter just in time to avoid the size 12 Caterpillar work-boot. He tried to stand, but Ian was too quick. He lurched forward, grabbed Frank by the hair, and slammed his head against a rock. The knife slashed across his face, ripped a deep furrow across his cheek, and sliced his left eye in half. Blood gushed from the wound and pooled in the dirt just behind his ear. He tried to scream, but all that came out was a sickening gurgle sound -- his throat had been cut. He rolled his remaining eye to the right, and saw Ian standing over him, laughing hysterically.~~

Enough action for Ya?

Dragonscales · 05-25-2004, 01:42 PM

I personally tend to think there is a time and a place for everything, even swearing. I agree with dark aevin on this one, using swearwords when it is needed is a good thing. As for turning people off, I don't think it does, look at the following Stephen King has and he's never been one to shy from the occasional F, C, S, Dhead, etc. I tend to think that it can be used effectively to colour a character every bit as well as any other piece of dialogue. Look at the scene in Alien 3 when that dude sees the fella who runs the prison get ripped up into the roof and all he can stutter is the F word in a very convincing manner. If he was to say "Oh golly gosh" I think it would completely ruin the scene, same thing goes for a story. I believe that swearing is like any other tool in writing, if the shoe fits, wear it!

Nazareth · 05-25-2004, 02:20 PM

Well, I know quite a few people who won't read Steven King & those are lost sales- Not that he needs to worry about it because He's huge as a writer- BUT he coulda been Huger Had he opted to exclude some of the stuff he wrote- He Still would have had all his previous readers PLUS the ones he excluded By choosing to write in a less abrassive manner. I don't think his use of filth was the reason people liked his writing- I don't beleive people thought "Aha, a writer who uses filth- now there's powerful writing" I don't beleive filth was the key to his success.

His stories used tried and true fomulas like character conflict, dramatic tensions and resolutions that everyone could relate to in the characters.

All the incidentals like filth were nothing but bloat.

Just depends on the crowd You want to attract when it all boils down to it-

Dragonscales · 05-25-2004, 02:58 PM

I tend to disagree, I believe that alot of his so called "filth" was nothing more than adding an extra facet to his character's personality. As for losing some people, sure he might have, but I believe that he may have possibly gained a few from it too. You'd be amazed at how many people would get encouraged to read a book that has swearwords in it just based on that fact alone, especially younger people because it's the "cool" or "hip" thing to say. Come for the swearing, stay for the rest. Your own comment also adds to the fact that whether it's there or not, if you are a capable writer then you are still going to be successful. I still think that everything, including swearing, has a time and a place somewhere. Not everyone like the same stuff, books containing swearing do have a following just as every other genre does. Each to their own I guess.

badash · 05-26-2004, 12:16 PM

Just some examples of swearing used differently:

In the books Chronicles from Kvæhl (danish books) there are these vampire trolls who constantly swear. It is made to be funny and it definitly is. Sometimes they are dizzing each other page up and page down and you just can't stop laughing.

Another example:

I'm myself writing a story set in a distant future, and I plan to use no swearing at all. The set of my story simply doesen't allow it. As won't many other.
Of course this is logic and a bit irrelevent but it still give us a small idea where swearing should be used and where it shouldn't.

Movie exmples:

I don't know it this can compare but I've seen loads of great movies where swearing was so frequent that you didn't really think about it. Fuck, ass, shit all the way! Adding to the "soul" of the film. Can't you apply this to a book???

Dragonball:

I love the swearing in those comics... They are fighting alot in it, but only rarely someone says "you fucking asshole" or "you're pissing me off", so it hit you everytime and I can't help but find it funny. It's exellent

Just a few examples, but swearing tottaly depends on the story, the time, the enviroment, the characters and so on... anything could work!

sorry if I'm misspelling alot or got bad gramma. English is only my second language.

tekp · 05-27-2004, 12:29 PM

I agree with what Quan said way back up top.

Quote:

There is a fine line, and you usually can tell. The way I look at it is that if you have a character who's very nice, the F* word from that person's mouth is much more POWERFUL than someone who swears all the time.

badash · 05-27-2004, 01:45 PM

Yeah, but that's kindda a kliché these days...

gabriella · 05-27-2004, 04:54 PM

I couldn't care less if a character said FUCK.