faraway

Hi..
I really hope someone can give me some pointers - don't hold back...

I've got an idea for a fantasy/fiction novel in my hed, and I'm writing down something new whenever I get a new idea...

What I've done so far is to separate everything into list - of probable characters, events, names, sequences, general story etc... all in all about 7000 words or so at the moment...

What I aim to do is to get a basic idea of the whole story from start to finish, then (after having written down information for each of the characters on a scrap sheet - like physical appearance, moods, manners etc...) write the story, filling in details...

One problem? I have is that it seems as though I'm thinking visually the whole time, and that can get extremely difficult to write down everything I see and hear in my head...

But mainly I just need a better idea of starting off.. there must be a better way to construct the story than what I've described?

thanks...

cdm

You said "Don't hold back," -- so I won't.

Are you a writer or a planner? The difference is the same as between an architect and a builder. The plans and diagrams, outlines and descriptions, and other such "data collections" are your way of avoiding writing, because you are insecure.

SO!

The way to write is to have a vague general idea and the first sentence. It has to have a hook, and that is all.

"The dawn broke a dirty grey, not the best omen for the task ahead..." Look how many ways THAT can go!

Get the first sentence in your head, sit your butt in front of your comp, write that sentence, and let it flow of its own volition! If you want to be a writer, you have to write. Plans and notes don't cut it, in the final analysis. They're merely tools, and the act of concentrating on them holds you back. Don't get into the arranging and organizing stage and find yourself stuck there. Only one person can make you write, and that's YOU!

Now get at it, and no more excuses!

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faraway

Thanks...

To be honest - I think you're right about just starting off (and the insecure bit as well - but that's another story)...
I really had no idea how to start off properly... It's a bit different from writing a short story (In my opinion anyway)

I've seen some articles where the writer basically knows exactly what's going to happen in the whole book and has drawn up notes on everything, and that seemed to make sense to me at the time..

Surely it's good to have some idea of what you want in the storyline, and of the characters? But where should one draw the line in that case?

But I do get your point.

thanks again for your advice... I appreciate it...

Kitten Courna

You suffer from being a beginner. *smiles* cdm has some good points, but I will say that it's a good idea to have an idea of what you want in the storyline, and the characters, and the only line that can be drawn has to be drawn by yourself. I will say, that at least in my experience, there is a point at which planning becomes over-planning, which makes writing the story seem ridiculous and painstaking. Writing down and making notes of all the details of your characters and plot events can be a bad idea. Writing a story is different from, for example, creating a Dungeons and Dragons character, where you may rely on a fact sheet to tell you what your character may or may not do. You have to be able to work without reference to make a living character. You have to be able to understand the characters limitations, attitudes, and flaws without having to look anything up. This lets you be truly certain of your character, and lets your write freely.

Or, at least, that's my suggestion with characters.

As for starting out, I was(or am) mostly a visual thinker when I write at times, so I understand that frustration. It can be extremely difficult, but what you must do is write down the things that you see. It may not be pretty, and it may not be clear, but write it down. Then, come back to it, re-read it, and visualize again the situation. smooth out the rought points in the prose, make certain actions more understandable. It still doesn't have to flow, but make each set of movements clear. Revise it again, smoother, cleaner, clearer. Keep the visual in mind, but also remember that, though you may feel your words don't convey the image perfectly, you are not recording a movie for your readers, but writing them a story. If some things are unclear, then they get to use their imaginations to fill them in.
Most importantly: Don't ever hesitate to cut out the unnecessary. i.e: "did the clouds have anything to do with Jack getting punched in the face, or were they more important later, as he lost consciousness on the ground?"

*grins*

Hope that helped some....

-Kitten

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cdm

I agree that notes can be helpful, but there is a huge difference between notes and 7000 words. I make notes, such as "3:10AM - murder Larry" or "Larry Sanders - vic Harry Donner - fight 2 dy b4 Madeleine Franks - dumped ex-girlfriend (2 apts down 114) Black Ford van."
These are notes. They keep a timeline and separate the characters, plus special traits. In a murder mystery, you MUST keep the timeline and so forth. In SciFi, you keep within the era, and so forth. In fantasy, again with characters and characteristics.
My chastisement is for wasting the time with copious notes as an excuse (to yourself) not to write. "Faint heart ne'er fair maiden won" - or something such.

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kinetickyle

You said that you write visually. Well, I think that's a good thing (I do that myself). I think it's important to visualize anything before you try to describe it in words. That way, you can analyze whatever it is you want to describe and come up with original ways to portray it to your readers.

Without visualization, you fall into the boring routine of saying things like, "there was blood on the snow," when you could say something like, "the bright crimson of the blood was unmistakable against the stark white of the tundra."

I'm not saying you have to write exactly like that. In fact, that's not the best description I could come up with (I'm kinda tired right now), but you get the general idea.

Basically, don't shy away from your mental visualization.

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modified7

I've always been of the impression it is best to sit down and just write, even if only a few pages at first. Write as it comes to you, making mental notes is okay as you go along at what might improve it, but in the end just write those pages and then put it away for a little bit. Then come back and read it over to see where improvements can be made.
Continuing this routine will yield a book eventually, and you'll probably find that in doing this you write more than just a few pages a day.... Keith

Spudley

Instead of writing notes about a chapter as they come to you, why not write the whole scene/chapter instead? There's no compulsion to write the book in sequence from start to finish, so instead of thinking "that's a good idea" and writing a page of notes, just write the chapter as you think about it.

The beauty of writing is that you can come back and edit, so don't worry about how good the writing is. You can tidy it up and work out how to knit them toegther later on. But for now, just get down and write something.

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Spudley

As an extra side-tracked thought, if you're having trouble with procrastinating too much, you might want to think about entering the Write Off contest held on this site. The requirement to get a story written within 24 hours is a seriously good motivational aid!

(but... I guess that will delay you from writing your main story... so forget I mentioned it... )

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Csira

Faraway, when I started writing my novel (it's also a fantasy so we have a thing in common) , I wrote some notes on characters as well. But later on, I think it is best that you try to get involved with your character so that you know how she or he behaves without looking at the notes. It shows that you can be able to understand your characters and express them as if you were them.

And it is important to keep a timeline, I know I do, but I sometimes erase and edit it as my mind creates far more exciting scenes.

Yes, I think it may be a bit too elaborate to write 7000 on what your storyline should be; perhaps notes on certain chapters would suffice, whenever you are struck by inspiration. You do not have to write notes on certain sequences, unless they help, but I always store it in my mind. So that when I arrive at that sequence, it will come to me like I'm watching a movie. Visualize the sequence like a slowed movie and take in every scene, analyze it and then write it to the best of your ability. I know I'm at odds when I have to do action scenes from my head, but take it one scene at a time. Write at your own comfortable pace.

With time, the story will evolve in your mind. A timeline and character chart are good for helping you with the details, but do not constantly rely on them for reference. I'm sorry if I sound perplexing, my mind tends to jumble whenever I wake up early. I wish you luck with your novel, nonetheless.

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amie

You're visual...that's perfect. Sit in front of a blank wall, start the story from the beginning, put it in slow motion, and watch as you write. Your writing will be a million times better that way.

As for the subject of planning. I know some people need to plan, but I think the planning might be better to come AFTER you've started writing. An author friend of mine once told me he writes for at least 25 pages before he finds the beginning of his novel, and then he scraps those 25 pages. Not a bad plan, but be prepared to let those first 25 pages go. Don't fret, however, you'll never run out of words.

good luck,
amie

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faraway

Hi there...

I have to thank you all for your advice... Quite a lot to think about.

Joining this forum was definitely the best thing I could have done, and I do believe it will make things easier for me...

thx...

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rain

Hi!

I'm new to this website, but so far it looks like I'll be learning loads just by reading you guys...

I guess I'm a young writer (17) and I have always enjoyed doing so, I am also a visual writer, if I know what that means. One thing I run into when I'm writing is my vocabulary isn't as good as I wish it were... I just don't know enough words to describe the situation better. Also, some friends have told me to use anecdotes? is that what they're called?

I am currently reading E.E "Doc" Smith's Triplanetary - the first book of the Lensman series. And I am overwhelmed at how much this guy knows about space! It seems as if he invented the place, talking about it as if it were right here on Earth. I guess that's just a sign of a good writer.

I'm writing a short story, at least, I think it's going to be a short story, but I have problems such as, I make it up as I go along, I make little notes like cmd mentioned, little tid-bits of notes, but I write it mostly up as I go. I'll write a sentence and stop and think about what's going to happen next to my character, then write it. And sometimes things inter-change with one another and I get all screwed up and have to go back and re-write it. Is this a really hard way to learn? Am I doing everything wrong? Should I be writing more notes down?

Help would be more than appreciated.

-rain

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MarkS

First of all, welcome to the forums

Some methods of tackling writing are best for some, but terrible for others. I myself hate doing it any other way than making it up as I go. Sure, I have a general idea of where I want my character to go and who I want to come into the story later on, but I usually make up most of the story as I go.

By using this method, your work absolutly will require lots of editing, time, and thinking. But for me, at least, I can't sit down and write out an entire plot in outline form and make it work, it just doesn't happen, and I end up making it up as I go anyway.

But for other people, making an outline is mandatory. They like to have the general flow of the story plotted out. What events will happen, where he goes, who he meets, etc.

The bottom line, I belive, is to test out different methods. Outlines, sketches, or "as you go." Pick the one that suits you best and has the best turnout. That's what's trying to be accomplished, right?

Spudley

Hi there. Glad you're enjoying yourself here

For vocab, get yourself a thesaurus. If you know what you want to say but don't know the word for it, it's much more useful than a dictionary. (uh, you'll want a dictionary too, of course... )


Ah yes. The Lensman series. Good read. Gets a bit heavy going later on, but yes, the man had a great imagination, and a brilliant storytelling technique. (there are a few points where his science is out of date, but that's to be expected, since it was written quite a number of years ago now, and in truth I think it holds together a lot better than most)

Don't be ashamed of rewriting stuff: we all do it, and we all need to do it.

To my mind, it doesn't make much difference whether you re-write from notes, or from an earlier version of the story; as long as you're happy with the end result, the way you get there doesn't really matter.

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