Writing, not talking - Writers Forum

Olly Buckle · 10-09-2008, 04:56 AM

This is a comment I made on someone's thread but I think it bears repeating here. It may be useful to more people for starters; then other people may add some more up to date authors to read (But please don't turn the thread into a list of books); and I am turning over in my mind more things to add to it.

I have been thinking about this and I think the problem is that you write as you speak. When you say something to some one there is all sorts of information passed as well as the words, intonations of the voice, gestures with your hands, even the way you hold your body can imply things. When you write there is nothing to convey this stuff so you have to make it all absolutely clear what belongs with what, otherwise working it out slows your readers down and stops them following the story properly. A good way to pick up this sort of habit is reading something well written. When I say that people usually think it will be boring, intellectual stuff, but it doesn't have to be. I usually recommend things like the "Hornblower" series (I think they are by Forester, but I get mixed up with Forster). They are adventure yarns about Nelson's navy and follow a young recruit from midshipman through his career to retirement as Admiral. Aurther Upfield writes great detective stories about a half aboriginal detective in the outback of Australia and Alexander Mcall-Smith writes easily read inconsequential novels about Botswana and Edinburgh, "The number one ladies detective agency" and "44,Scotland Street" are the first in each series. Fay Weldon writes good novels with unusual themes. You don't need to labour over "literature" to find something well written and you will pick up habits of writing in the same way you have picked up habits of talking.
When you have done so a bit it is worth reading something like William Strunk "The elements of style", but this lays out all the rules using phrases like "a participle phrase at the beginning of a sentence must relate to the grammatical subject" which is well off putting at first but shows you the difference between
Walking down the road he saw a dude and two fit women (standing on the corner)
and
(standing on the corner)He saw a dude and two fit women walking down the road

I added "standing on the corner" to make the difference clearer but it's still there.

The Backward OX · 10-11-2008, 11:24 PM

If you tell me one more time that Updike wrote about Bony I shall scrag your hard drive, melt your motherboard and nuke your CPU.

Olly Buckle · 10-12-2008, 02:45 AM

The dangers of copy and paste, sorry, but I only told you once really.

The Backward OX · 10-12-2008, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle

The dangers of copy and paste, sorry, but I only told you once really.

This puts me in mind of an excerpt from a work in progress that I have saved. I append it here, with the names changed, for your enjoyment.

. . . He noticed that the little red light on the answer machine was flashing and pressed the play button.

“You have two unheard messages--message one”.

“Hey! Harry, how yo’ doin’? Gator here. Good weather eh dude! Listen I got Airscrew here he’s got something to say to you. I’m going to put us on speaker phone . . .”

Click!

Dialling Tone ...

“Message two:”

“I did press the big button, shithead!”

“Hey! Harry, How yo’ doin’? Gator here, listen dude I got Airscrew here he’s got something to say to you. I’m going to put us on speaker phone . . .”

Click!

Silence

Gator: Airscrew?

Airscrew: Yeah!

Gator: You are going to apologise for what you said and he is going to apologise for pushing you, aren’t you Harry?

Airscrew: He din’ push me, he hit me!

Gator: OK. Maybe not push, let’s say. . . shove!

Airscrew: Whatever.

Silence.

Gator: So apologise!

Airscrew: I not going to ‘pologise. Look, I ‘pologise to a machine. Harry, he don’t fuckin’ ‘pologise, he just plays the machine, and makes me ‘pologise twenty times and he ain’t fuckin’ ‘pologised once!

Olly Buckle · 10-14-2008, 02:39 PM

Thinking about writing and talking I was listening to real people talking and comparing it in my head with what happens on the page, of course you don't get all the talking over people and people finishing sentences short when they see they have been understood, things like that most people don't realise happen in real life so they don't write them in. What they do realise happens are "smart" phrases, things that are loaded with irony or sarcasm, trouble is the irony doesn't come over on the written page. Of course you can add something like "He said, ironically", the trouble with that is that it comes after the reader has read what he said in whatever voice they put on it, if it wasn't ironical then there is a hiccough while they go back and put the right voice on. If you put the information beforehand "With an ironical tone he said..." you are doing a bit better, but it's a bit like the bloke who says "Listen to this, no listen it's really good..." before telling a joke. My feeling is that wherever possible it is best to have people speak plainly, not at all like real life.

The Backward OX · 10-14-2008, 05:49 PM

You've given me an idea for a thread.

Olly Buckle · 10-26-2008, 07:20 PM

When you are talking things like intonation will show exactly what relates to what, when you are writing you need to keep things that relate to each other together to avoid confusion.

eg
His writing could be clear or confusing, he had noticed it often, depending on mood.
Is this? Depending on his mood his writing could be clear or confusing, he had often noticed it
Or? It depended on his mood whether he noticed that his writing was clear or confusing, though he noticed often.

The Backward OX · 10-26-2008, 08:13 PM

I recognise the point you are trying to make and I agree entirely.

Having said that, there is really only the one interpretation that can be placed on your original quote. It is fairly clear, if poorly expressed; my revamping below of your first alternative tidies it up, and that’s an end to it.

“He had often noticed that depending on his mood his writing could be clear or confusing”. Note I am not changing the meaning, only the way it is said.

The second alternative is a pig’s breakfast as to meaning. You appear to be saying that he often noticed that he didn’t always notice whether his writing was clear or confusing? Or maybe you were saying he was often in a mood? I’m confused.

Ilasir Maroa · 10-27-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Backward OX

This puts me in mind of an excerpt from a work in progress that I have saved. I append it here, with the names changed, for your enjoyment.

. . . He noticed that the little red light on the answer machine was flashing and pressed the play button.

“You have two unheard messages--message one”.

“Hey! Harry, how yo’ doin’? Gator here. Good weather eh dude! Listen I got Airscrew here he’s got something to say to you. I’m going to put us on speaker phone . . .”

Click!

Dialling Tone ...

“Message two:”

“I did press the big button, shithead!”

“Hey! Harry, How yo’ doin’? Gator here, listen dude I got Airscrew here he’s got something to say to you. I’m going to put us on speaker phone . . .”

Click!

Silence

Gator: Airscrew?

Airscrew: Yeah!

Gator: You are going to apologise for what you said and he is going to apologise for pushing you, aren’t you Harry?

Airscrew: He din’ push me, he hit me!

Gator: OK. Maybe not push, let’s say. . . shove!

Airscrew: Whatever.

Silence.

Gator: So apologise!

Airscrew: I not going to ‘pologise. Look, I ‘pologise to a machine. Harry, he don’t fuckin’ ‘pologise, he just plays the machine, and makes me ‘pologise twenty times and he ain’t fuckin’ ‘pologised once!

Great one, NTO. I agree on your final comment. The revamped was much clearer, while I found at leat four meanings for the original examples.