mybigboots

I haven't posted any work yet because it feels like sending a message in a bottle out into deep space. I have two questions:

1-Is there any system in place so one can identify writers with professional experience over those (excuse my bluntness) with only opinions?

I understand the need, particularly for professional writers, to maintain anonymity - but is it possible there could be a declaration of experience in the membership details? I realise one could fib, but that wouldn't be in the spirit of things.

My reason for these questions is that I joined here after getting totally fed up with the last writers' site I was a member of. If I, or any other writer, asked for advice it usually started a war between diametrically opposed opinions and nobody was any the wiser in the aftermath.

2-Has there ever been any discussion about creating a mentoring system where the more experienced writers could adopt more inexperienced writers. That is if anyone was willing to put that sort of time in. I do think one-on-one crits would be extremely helpful and, being consistent in nature, enable more learning than the plethora of light compliments, punctuated with what amounted to proof-reading in the last forum.

I'm new, so don't flame me for making a couple of suggestions.

Best wishes

Boots

Sam Winchester

1. There are mentors and moderators on the site who, if not professional writers, have a great deal of knowledge about writing. There are published writers on here, too, but I'm not entirely sure who.

2. Those people with their names highlighted in purple are mentors. You can PM one of them and I'm sure they'd be happy to help. Having said that, there are many bright individuals on this forum who aren't mentors but who would be happy to give you a one-on-one critique.

Sam.

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Non Serviam

Welcome to the internet, where you need to decide who to believe. Read people's fiction, read their critiques of other people's work, read their posts, and decide who you trust to advise you.

"Professional" writers is a sticky question because, what constitutes a professional?

There are some people on wf.com who support themselves purely through their writing, but most of us have day jobs. Some who have day jobs sell fiction at professional rates; are they professional?

Others sell at amateur rates, some are published in free publications, some have yet to be published, and some are self-published (notably SeattleCPA, who's self-published very successfully and made enormous sums).

Welcome to the internet, where there are differing opinions.

On this site I've noticed that outside the debate forum, there tends to be a resolution. (This is probably because the staff tend to agree with each other.)

That happens, but informally. Personally, whenever I post a piece of my own work, I can pretty much write out a list of half a dozen people who'll comment honestly and thoroughly.

You'll find that if you critique other people's work properly, then post a literate, intelligently-written piece of your own that's actually finished, has an actual title, and has intelligible spelling and grammar, you'll attract honest and thorough critiques from others.

You'll also find that if you don't critique anyone else's work, but post your own half-finished material and then demand to see the "credentials" of anyone who comments then this site probably won't help you very much.

Incidentally, before posting any writing of your own, I suggest adding Truth-Teller to your ignore list.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle The ways of the world are twisty and unknowable, the only way to be sure you are not caught out in something you regret is not to do things you may regret.

mybigboots

Many thanks, Sam. Personally I'm not ready for that level of intimacy with a stranger yet, but its good to know the culture here is more positive. I consider myself to be on the upper end of the amateur spectrum. How about you? Have you published? If not, how many of your manuscripts do you honestly consider to be good enough to publish? Of my six novels I'd say one, my most recent, is to that standard...after six drafts.

Boots

Sam Winchester

No problem. I haven't published, but I've recently finished my fourth novel, and it is the only one which I'd consider as "publishable material". What some people don't understand is that writing is a never-ending job. Just because you've finished the book, doesn't mean it's "finished". There is still a lot of work to be done after the initial writing process. I've re-written (re-written, mind you, not re-vamped) my first novel no fewer than three times.

Sam.

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mybigboots

Thanks for your kind welcome, Non Serviam.

For these purposes, I guess I would consider a professional to be anyone whose work had been accepted by the agency/publishing system, or who has favorable reviews in mainstream press to their credit. This is not a value-judgement on a writers' worth, just factual, in my opinion. I have self-published and made money from it and don't consider it to be the real deal, just a step along the way.

Why? Do tell...or you'll just tempt me to hang my bait out.

Boots

mybigboots

I am near the end of a first draft and, at this point, I always get that hopeful feeling that I'll read it and find it a draft away from wonderful. Some hopes huh?!

Boots

Non Serviam

Well, I've sold material to publishers at professional rates, but, none of it was fiction.

I still feel qualified to talk about fiction.

Read around the site, get to know people, form your own opinion.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle The ways of the world are twisty and unknowable, the only way to be sure you are not caught out in something you regret is not to do things you may regret.

mybigboots

I look forward to doing that!
Thanks.

Mr T. Telller...want to get your story in first?

Boots

Mike C

I wouldn't worry about the 'quality' of the person giving the feedback - published or unpublished, we're all readers and therefore all opinions are more or less equally valid.

If you highlight what you're interested in getting back (ie is my grammar ok, does the plot suck, is it realistic that granny could wield an axe and sever heads while under the influence of cocaine etc) you'll get more focussed feedback.

The bottom line (with all critique groups) is that you take what you need and disregard the rest; all opinion is subjective. You'll quickly find those that give considered thoughtful crits and those who think it's clever to be rude and offensive (that's where Truth-Teller scores highly).

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Sam Winchester

I thought Truth-Teller was banned? They let him back?

Sam.

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Non Serviam

Temporarily banned, mate. It takes a lot to get permabanned from this site (though some have certainly managed it).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Olly Buckle The ways of the world are twisty and unknowable, the only way to be sure you are not caught out in something you regret is not to do things you may regret.

Foxee

1. You seem to think that the only opinions that matter are published writers. Think about this, though, avid readers can spot inconsistencies, plot holes, butchered grammar, cliches, etc. without having to commit a single word to a page. Plus, if you have a writers who support themselves with a day job. That means we have experts in differing fields. Nurses, policemen, soldiers, students, etc. We even have a plumber! These guys don't have to be published authors to tell you if your facts are straight in their area of expertise.

The thing is, more often than not you might just get what you paid for. (in case you missed that, this is a free site) But if you find a few gems that help you to transform your story then you've done well.

It's on you to decide what is useful advice in any critiques you get. After reading a few of the bad novels that have been published I wouldn't put all of my faith in someone simply because they are published. Educate yourself and become a connoisseur, able to differentiate between good and bad advice.

2. We do have a mentoring system as Sam mentioned. It's not terribly one-on-one but it is helpful, I think.

In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, do critique other's work, too. Two reasons for this: 1. You will learn quite a bit by commenting and discussing the work 2. It is courteous and others will tend to reciprocate.

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mybigboots

Thanks. You all make some very valid points. Glad I swapped forums.
See you later...
Boots