how do i get readers - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Ilasir Maroa · 03-02-2008, 02:04 AM

I hate to admit this, but sometimes, I don't comment if nobody else has. I would rather someone else be the first to say how awful a piece is.

If that makes me feel guilty enough, I might post anyway, and try to keep to the good parts, even if I have to stretch things a bit. Later, I come back and load all the problems on the poster if someone else has responded as well. And of course, I feel obligated to respond to pm requests. Hopefully, I'm not well enough known outside of peotry that someone will take advantage of my weakness.

Archer · 03-02-2008, 08:39 AM

Even though a new guy myself I have commented on several postings, and I completely understand how difficult it is to critique some of the train wrecks that are posted here.

Sometimes I just want to say "OMG, this is HORRIBLE! Reading it made my eyes bleed and my hair fall out!"

If someone doesn't understand basic sentence structure, it's no use.

Baron · 03-02-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

Even though a new guy myself I have commented on several postings, and I completely understand how difficult it is to critique some of the train wrecks that are posted here.

Sometimes I just want to say "OMG, this is HORRIBLE! Reading it made my eyes bleed and my hair fall out!"

If someone doesn't understand basic sentence structure, it's no use.

Interesting. That's something that Hemingway was frequently accused of.

Archer · 03-02-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Interesting. That's something that Hemingway was frequently accused of.

First, none of us is Hemingway.

Second, none of us is qualified to critique Hemingway.

Third, Hemingway wasn't known for asking other people's opinions anyway.

So I think we can leave aside the icons of literature from this discussion. If you come to this forum for a critique of your work, you should not be surprised if you get few critiques when you can't even string together a sentence.

Some writers are so good they rise above the rules. But before you thumb your nose at the norm, you should at least understand it.

So when I see a piece of work that looks like a transposition cipher, I must assume that either:
A) This writer is so much better than I am that I am unqualified to critique their work, or
B) This writer is clueless about gramatical rules and basic writing concepts.

In either case I will simply hit the back button.

I don't give a critique if there is (IMO) too much wrong with the piece. I'm not the sort (like at least one member here) that just hurls insults. I take no pleasure in hurting people's feelings.

But if I take the time to read and critique a piece I'll tell it as I see it.

I know it sounds cold, but it's just the facts. We all have our relatives and friends to tell us how great our writing is. We come here for a dose of reality.

So aspiring writers (as most of us here are) will have 2 choices. They can run away and cry when somebody tells them what's wrong with their work, or they can try their best to understand the criticism and improve.

I'll be honest. When I first posted my work on a forum (not this one) and received a negative critique, I was pissed. I wanted to be told it was great. But guess what? It wasn't great. It wasn't even good. But it was coherent enough that somebody could tell me what I needed to do to improve it. So after I got done pouting I took another look at the critique and saw the truth of it.

Heck, I'm almost to the point now that I can take a negative critique without getting my feelings hurt. Almost.

lin · 03-02-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Second, none of us is qualified to critique Hemingway.

Speak for yourself.

lin · 03-02-2008, 01:15 PM

BTW, relating to another discussion here about writers who couldn't get published today, I'd say Ernie fits the mold. I have a really hard time seeing anybody thinking he would get readers in today's market.

Olly Buckle · 03-02-2008, 02:03 PM

[quote=lin;1072524

I've seen people's first posts here draw extensive commentary.[/quote]

yes , but was it because they were good, because they were rubbish or because they were pig headed and argumentative?

Olly Buckle · 03-02-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

Hopefully, I'm not well enough known outside of poetry that someone will take advantage of my weakness.

You are now!

Baron · 03-02-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

First, none of us is Hemingway.

Second, none of us is qualified to critique Hemingway.

Third, Hemingway wasn't known for asking other people's opinions anyway.

So I think we can leave aside the icons of literature from this discussion. If you come to this forum for a critique of your work, you should not be surprised if you get few critiques when you can't even string together a sentence.

Some writers are so good they rise above the rules. But before you thumb your nose at the norm, you should at least understand it.

So when I see a piece of work that looks like a transposition cipher, I must assume that either:
A) This writer is so much better than I am that I am unqualified to critique their work, or
B) This writer is clueless about gramatical rules and basic writing concepts.

In either case I will simply hit the back button.

I don't give a critique if there is (IMO) too much wrong with the piece. I'm not the sort (like at least one member here) that just hurls insults. I take no pleasure in hurting people's feelings.

But if I take the time to read and critique a piece I'll tell it as I see it.

I know it sounds cold, but it's just the facts. We all have our relatives and friends to tell us how great our writing is. We come here for a dose of reality.

So aspiring writers (as most of us here are) will have 2 choices. They can run away and cry when somebody tells them what's wrong with their work, or they can try their best to understand the criticism and improve.

I'll be honest. When I first posted my work on a forum (not this one) and received a negative critique, I was pissed. I wanted to be told it was great. But guess what? It wasn't great. It wasn't even good. But it was coherent enough that somebody could tell me what I needed to do to improve it. So after I got done pouting I took another look at the critique and saw the truth of it.

Heck, I'm almost to the point now that I can take a negative critique without getting my feelings hurt. Almost.

You make a lot of assumptions. Any writer is just a writer, anyway. They're not gods, especially not Hemingway. Some are just better than others that's all. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste.. Sometimes the work is crap but it never gets better if people aren't prepared to point out what's going wrong.

Archer · 03-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lin

Speak for yourself.

There is a difference in being qualified and feeling qualified.

The gnat may criticize the elephant. But is it qualified to do so? That discussion could fill volumes.

Who is really qualified to critique another's work? All of us. And none of us.

Whether or not you agree with my second point, there is no argument about the third. Since Hemingway didn't ask for our opinion of his work, it is pointless to bring him into the discussion. The object of this forum is not to measure submissions against Hemingway, or anybody else.

Baron · 03-02-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

There is a difference in being qualified and feeling qualified.

The gnat may criticize the elephant. But is it qualified to do so? That discussion could fill volumes.

Who is really qualified to critique another's work? All of us. And none of us.

Whether or not you agree with my second point, there is no argument about the third. Since Hemingway didn't ask for our opinion of his work, it is pointless to bring him into the discussion. The object of this forum is not to measure submissions against Hemingway, or anybody else.

As Hemingway is no longer with us I doubt that he'll be raising any objections... unless you know a good medium.

Archer · 03-02-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

Sometimes the work is crap but it never gets better if people aren't prepared to point out what's going wrong.

Being a writer isn't just throwing some words on paper. Not for the vast majority anyway.

With a few mouse-clicks anyone can find countless resources on writing.

I refuse to be the bad guy because I feel that aspiring writers should take responsibility for learning the basics before they ask others to spend time trying to help them.

I don't belittle them. I don't berate them. But I will not spend my effort if they aren't willing to first spend their effort. If that makes me intolerant or arrogant in some people's eyes, so be it.

I do want to help other aspiring writers. I have given many critiques since I joined here. I will continue to do so.

Baron · 03-02-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

Being a writer isn't just throwing some words on paper. Not for the vast majority anyway.

With a few mouse-clicks anyone can find countless resources on writing.

I refuse to be the bad guy because I feel that aspiring writers should take responsibility for learning the basics before they ask others to spend time trying to help them.

I don't belittle them. I don't berate them. But I will not spend my effort if they aren't willing to first spend their effort. If that makes me intolerant or arrogant in some people's eyes, so be it.

I do want to help other aspiring writers. I have given many critiques since I joined here. I will continue to do so.

There are stages of development. Such as, when an embryo is developing in the womb the very first part to form is the intestinal tract, beginning with the anus. Unfortunately there are some among us who never progress beyond that.

Archer · 03-02-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron

There are stages of development. Such as, when an embryo is developing in the womb the very first part to form is the intestinal tract, beginning with the anus. Unfortunately there are some among us who never progress beyond that.

I have been called an asshole more times than I can remember, but I believe I will remember this one.

Just remember that name-calling (however eloquent) is the lowest form of debate.

Baron · 03-02-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

I have been called an asshole more times than I can remember, but I believe I will remember this one.

Just remember that name-calling (however eloquent) is the lowest form of debate.

I was looking for a critique