How The Low Standards of Critiques Affect Writers on this Forum

[Ilasir Maroa]

I was trying to be ironic... which doesn't always work on the internet, but I still feel like I should try.

And stop taking things out of context!

[ClancyBoy]

Originally Posted by valeca

Practicing what you preach is a two-way street. If you're going to be condescending to someone else (ie: in map's critique), make sure your glass house is in order first.

If you want improvement, lead by example.

S/he said you were "unfaltering." That's a compliment!

[Ilasir Maroa]

lol.

[valeca]

Ilasir, it wasn't out of context.

You said:

Having seen all the information on the specific case map is refeing to, I leave it up to the reader to make a decision. If everybody thinks I was out of line, the I will apologize(for the fourth time).

If you're going to tell someone to 'practice what they preach' with regards to using proper grammar, you'd better make sure you're doing the same. If you don't like the example I used, I can provide you with several others from this thread.

[Ilasir Maroa]

I don't know what all your fussing is about... I gave my excuse(lol) for those grammar comments: ie, I was joking(which I kinda was), and I apologized about five times. I get the message.

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by ClancyBoy

When I want a certain kind of review, I find authors whose writing I like and give them the kind of thoughtful reviews and praise I would want to get. Most of them will reciprocate.
It's kind of a gift culture around here. You get out of it about 50-75% of what you put into it.

Some years ago I studied Salesmanship. We were taught certain principles of behaviour that apply to everyone, not just to sales prospects. If you, the salesman, (whoops, pc, salesperson – wonder what Salesmanship is called now?) want your prospect to buy your product (let’s call it Product A) you have to make him like you. We were taught we will do better at our job, i.e., make more sales, if we concentrate on those with whom we get along. We were taught to find topics on which we could agree, and that through building up this rapport, a sale was almost certain (ok, there are other factors, but this is leading somewhere and I don’t want to bog it down with extraneous matter). It could well be that Product B, sold by the opposition, has equal merit, in fact it probably does, but it’s just that you did a better job of public relations than the poor galoot trying to unload Product B.

So what does all that have to do with critiquing? Your comments are almost identical with what I learned about the art of selling. The way you work, the only review you get is the one you want to hear – you are just like the salesman with Product A. I think a more balanced view might be helpful.

imho

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

(A note: you're coming across in a very unfalttering way, at least imo. You should be very careful to make sure your tone isn't unecessarily ofensive or patronizing Selorian.)

Jesus wept!

I didn’t see anything in the least ofensive, patronising or unfalttering about Selorian’s post.

And even if it was - not three posts earlier, here you are saying that you can’t help unleashing yourself on your hapless victims. Pot and Kettle time, methinks.


Someone around here has a case of thin-skinitis

[Olly Buckle]

Mis understandings; years ago someone did an experiment where two people , out of touch with each other, each took part in a game where they were driving trucks delivering loads, the aim was to deliver as much as possible but there was a place where the road reduced to a single track and they had to co-operate. INVARIABLY the co-operation broke down and both parties started obstructing each other. Ilasir, I would suggest that you look back and revise your post every time you find yourself saying "Just kidding" so you don't need to say it.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by Hodge

Literary analysis is not a critique. Literary analysis is a method of trying to find out what a piece is "really" about. Critiquing is simply finding strengths and weaknesses of the piece and offering advice on how to fix it.

The two are completely different.

But you can't do one effectively without the other. There can be a strength in style but a weakness in vision, analysis allows us to see those faults (and really magnify them).

[The Backward OX]

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

When it involves posting something like a long story, I cut and paste from Microsoft Word, and excuse me for not clicking "preview post" Number Ten Ox. I went back and fixed it after... so it's not like I was saying "shut up you nit-picking, meanie bastard" or something.

I have a confession.

I’m not always the fastest kid on the block.

And this is the second time I’ve seen this puzzling reference in these fora. The first time I put it down as a typo. This second time has piqued my curiosity. WHAT exactly is the significance of Number Ten?

[SeanFields]

God Bless Us, Everyone!

[Ilasir Maroa]

Lol, it's a literary reference to a character in "Eight Skilled Gentlemen." You remind me of the character, and then there's the name similarity, which makes it just not possible for me to pass up, but... if you want me to stop, I will.

[mrd00d]

Here is the problem I see with this. Every person is different. While some might appreciate nit-picking some might be irritated with it. I like any kind of feedback, whether it's correction of punctuation, grammar, run on sentences, etc etc. I like to hear people's thoughts no matter what, in regards to in my work. Courtesy and tact are always appreciated as well.

Maybe if you could give example of what you think a 'good critique' is, we can get an idea of what is good and what is bad.

Sometimes I leave a quick 'I like this, great work' kind of critique because I think the story is working great just the way it is. I don't need to go on and on about anything else other than say 'Thanks for the read' or 'Keep up the good work'.

Does that make for a bad comment in your eyes?

[mrd00d]

Originally Posted by Ilasir Maroa

Just to show what map is talking about, here are the quotes from our discussion. Besides my rather in bad taste jokes about his grammar, I don't see how iut was all that rude or defensive. In fact, I took quite a few of his suggestions, and acknowledged that I had made the refered-to mistakes.

You spelled 'it' wrong, as well as 'referred'. I also don't think it needs a hyphen when used in this way.

Definition of refer - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

I hope this helps, no, I am not pontificating.

[Ilasir Maroa]

It's not necessarily about a good critique, it's the person doing the best they can while exercising tact and courtesy. I would prefer to get a nice, line-by-line, deep, thought out critique, but not everyone can do that. I still try to get the most out of critiques, and that means, to me, discussing the critique with the critiquer. I am not trying to intimidate them, or be mean becuase I didn't like their critique; I am trying to to decide just how much of what they said I will include in the revision; sometimes it's all of, and sometimes it's not.

But that doesn't mean I don't think that people can improve their critiques. They can work to get better, just like they do in writing; and if they are just a reader it can still help them appreciate more all the hard work that goes into the subtle parts of writing. So when I ask a question, or make a suggestion, or explain something I did to see if they still don't like it, I am simply trying to help eveyone get the most out of the situation.

I have repeatedly mentioned that they can decide not to discuss it, and all they have to do is say so. However, I am likely to give less leeway to someone who chooses to critique and run, than I am to someone who stays around for even just a few posts to discuss it.