ethical use of quotations in sigs - Page 3 - Writers Forum

Mike C · 07-17-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selorian

People have a hard time following the rules already posted, do you think adding that bit would magicly make it stop?

I agree with the original sentiments, plagiarism isn't acceptable in any fashion here at WF.

Soooo.... to bring everything back on line...

If people have a hard time following rules, we (and I mean us, collectively) need to either start enforcing them, or accept that the rules don't mean anything and scrap them. For what it's worth the sig that started this broke 2 rules - plagiarism, and length - it exceeded the 4 line maximum. Now I couldn't really give a steaming one about the length, but if rules are rules, I'd like to complain both about that and the misrepresentation of the contents.

And yes, I do acknowledge and appreciate that the admin's role is a thankless one, but if you take a job on, you have to sometimes take the flak that goes with that. Particularly, as it has sometimes seemed in this and the originating threads, that you're more bothered by the presentation of the complaint than the rule-breaking that prompted it.

Now - as we're all supposedly on the same side - can we all be nice to eachother and get on with the job in hand?

valeca · 07-17-2006, 02:10 PM

Yep, we can. If you see an infraction, report it (as you said, collectively we're all responsible). The shear number of posts made in a single day makes it impossible for every single one to be read by staff. Yes, we're volunteers; we all started out as regular members, and likely ended up at WF for the same reasons as everyone else. Writing. Some of our time is our own to enjoy the site, talk with friends, join in discussions, read for the enjoyment of it, learn, help, etc.

All moderation happens in private, so please, everyone remember, just because you don't see it happening first hand, it doesn't mean problems aren't being addressed or dealt with. It doesn't always happen as quickly as we'd like, but it does happen. If you see a problem, don't muck up someone's thread with it, use the report feature. It takes less time than it would to PM a staff member, and the handy thing about it is, it goes to all staff, so you don't have to wait for one particular person to log in to read it. Nifty, no?

mammamaia · 07-17-2006, 05:19 PM

mea culpa!...

i agree that i could have worded my post more judiciously and apologize to any whose feelings were hurt and for any perceived slam at the staff... my apology for offending is sincere, regardless of what i meant in that post...

in case no one's noticed, i've edited the original post to 'neutralize' it as i should have done in the first place...

the reason for not using a pm is that i was primarily addressing members, and not admin and staff, setting out the ethical standard for use of quotes in sigs... i surely couldn't and [shouldn't have] sent a pm to every member who's on th the forum now and would ever join us in future, so a 'to whom it may concern' public type post was my only option, as i saw it...

plus, i did want the subject discussed publicly, as has happened, to establish [i hoped] that the majority agrees that quotes should be cited... i didn't foresee this becoming a 'war' or personal grudge airing and i won't take part in that part of the exercise, thank you...

i do need to say, however, that i've never had the slightest desire to be a mod or mentor here, or on any of the other boards i monitor daily, because much of my time is taken up with posting and the rest of it, by working with all those who come to me for help privately, by email...

and that is the reason i'm a 'mentor'... if you run, you'd call yourself a runner... if you sing, you'd call yourself a singer... what i do IS mentor aspiring writers and i do it full time, all day, every single day of the year... so, i have no option as i see it, than to call myself a 'mentor'... it's not a knighthood that has to be conferred... just an explanatory term...

and the 'free' whatever i may occasionally refer to is NOT what i do here on the forum, but what i do 14-15 hours a day, every single day, 'at home'... both in person now, on tinian, and by email,as i've been doing for years... i wish all would keep that in mind and not erroneously equate it with what we ALL do here, for free... thanks...

love and hugs to all, maia

Selorian · 07-17-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne Lacey

Or perhaps you've forgotten all the invaluable and FREE advice she has given to everyone on this site.

The quote refers to this site. It is what everyone else here tries to do. What you do off-site has little bearing as far as the quote is concerned. Nice grandstanding though.

Anne Lacey · 07-17-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selorian

The quote refers to this site. It is what everyone else here tries to do. What you do off-site has little bearing as far as the quote is concerned. Nice grandstanding though.

I have no idea what you're referring to. I was referring ONLY to the advice I see her give on this site on a daily basis. And unlike many others, hers is actually good.

Kane · 07-17-2006, 08:21 PM

Some of her advice is good, yes, though she has never given me any, since my stories are realistic, and therefore sometimes contain violence. But I have seen other people give good advice as well. Giving good advice does not entitle someone to rant like a raving madwoman. Nor does giving advice entitle someone to bash the mods and mentors who make this place possible. If Maia was really concerned, she could have sent her concerns through PM, but instead, as usual, she chose to make a public declaration, a defamation if you will, acting as though she had cause to be righteously angry because someone used a quote and didn't name the author. Had I made the same mistake in college English, I would have simply received a small deduction toward my total grade, yet Maia felt the need to viciously attack the staff. I would not have been surprised if she had called down steaming meatballs of vengeance, were it in her power to do so. She clearly over reacted, and as she is always happy to point out, she is older than all of us, she is more experienced than all of us, I daresay she is better than all of us, and she doesn't need you to stick up for her.

Anne Lacey · 07-17-2006, 08:40 PM

Ah, but clearly she needed you to attack her. Thank you for proving my point, Kane.

Kane · 07-17-2006, 08:52 PM

The only way I could have proved your point is if you turn a blind eye to what you don't want to see. I've been here a year longer than you now and am familiar with Maia's ways. If you want to head her fan club, that's fine, but at least represent the truth. Support Maia for who she is, and what she does; don't sugarcoat it.

Anne Lacey · 07-17-2006, 08:56 PM

Not sure what point you're referring to. I only meant that the vigorous attacking I see is towards Maia. I'm certainly not heading her fan club, I'm simply saying what I see. She is older and has more experience. It makes me think you must be very young... Only the very young cannot seem to appreciate age.
Oh, and by the way, she's never critiqued a piece of mine either, so I'm not even going on that. I'm only referring to this thread.

kalibantre · 07-17-2006, 09:05 PM

Yes we should state sources, but not everyone does. It's not hard but if you don't know then I think you shold be told quietly not rampaged upon.

When I first read this thread, it sounded like Maia was attacking the staff and I'm glad she edited her post.

But to allow someone to be an ass to other people because of age and the help they have given when the majority of users on this site are trying to help others as well as themselves isn't fair. Yes Maia has more experience that most, but that doesn't mean she's always right.

There are people in m writing classes sixty years older than me, and I have been informing them about writing styles and techniques. The young appreciate the old, they do not appreciate being told they're wrong and older people right just because of age, and rightly so.

Sorry I've been reading this for a long time and it bugged me. Also sorry Maia to talk about you like you aren't here. I just scanned it and it felt rude, but I couldn't fix it so I apologise if it comes across in a nasty way.

Kane · 07-17-2006, 09:12 PM

I'm 30, Anne, and Kali put it well. I appreciate age just fine, and I appreciate those who seek to help others. I just don't appreciate the condescending airs with which Maia chooses to present herself here. I don't have any problems with maia other than that.

mammamaia · 07-18-2006, 02:00 AM

no offense taken, kali... i did come to realize i'd been too harsh and so toned down the post and apologized... it would be nice if i could be allowed to make a mistake now and then, like i would think all of us do, and not be hung for it... if i was an ass to others with parts of that original post, i've since sincerely apologized for doing so, but clearly haven't been forgiven by all... which is pretty disheartening, since 'to err is human'... i suppose that means some here aren't 'divine' enough to fulfill the second half of that adage, huh?... sad...

Mike C · 07-18-2006, 05:23 AM

Kane's wrong anyway. I believe I'm the condescending one. I'm not above a little sarcasm now and again either.

Kane · 07-18-2006, 05:49 AM

I'm wrong about what, Mike? That Maia overreacted? That she took inappropriate measures?

Please, Maia, don't play the martyr now. Yes, you've apologized, and when you apologize for doing something, you don't really get to throw a pity trip in the mix. Nobody here has 'not forgiven' you. What I'm saying has nothing to do with that, but everything to do with the fact that others are making excuses for your rash behavior.

If you are sorry, that's fine, but don't continue it with these melodramatic posts. When you apologize, and then make condescending remarks to those you feel do not accept your apology fast enough, then you are just showing that you're not really sorry at all.

Mike C · 07-18-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kane

I'm wrong about what, Mike?

About Maia being the condescending one. That's me. And you're the one who joins a discussion late and extends it beyond it's natural conclusion purely, I guess, because you're in love with the sound of your own voice.

Word of advice, Kane - whining is never attractive.

I hope we can all now consider the subject closed - the offending sig has been changed, so there's nothing else to discuss.

As we've gone off topic again - from unethical signatures to who is the most condescending - I suggest if you have anything further to add, you do as moderators have suggested elsewhere under similar circumstances and go via PM.