Critique Forum Overload - Writers Forum

K-P · 06-08-2006, 12:42 PM

Now that it's summer, and school is out, a lot of people (especially the younger folk) are working on their novels, short stories, poetry, what-have-you. This leads to an over-abundance of posts in the critique forum, especially posts with titles like, "Critique the first sentence of the story I'm writing!" or, "Which paragraph sounds better!"

There is nothing wrong with these questions, and of course people are here to help, but users are posting EVERYTHING as a new thread. I mean, sometimes stuff that's just a day old end up on the second page of some of the most-used forums.

So, here's my suggestions: There should be a rule that only completed works, or mostly completed works, or at least works that are somewhat self-contained, are allowed to have an individual thread. Following this line of thinking, there should be a sticky thread for users to post unfinished work, or requests to critique openings, paragraphs, or single sentences.

Also, users should be required to post segments of a story in the same thread, instead of creating new ones.

I believe that this will lead to a much more organized WF, in which everyone has a fair chance to be heard (read). We have to have some sort of standard on this forum, or it'll just devolve into a chaotic mess.

Edit: I'm quoting my ideas for the structure of posts here.

Quote:

1) Subject Lines.
Subject lines should contain specific information, to make it easier for readers to sort through each thread. Something along the lines of: Title, Genre, and Word Count.
Edit: Of course, if the story is as yet untitled, then it should be labeled as such. Mods can be requested to change the subject like later.

2) Thread Content
Thread Content should be at least somewhat well thought out. I'm not saying the story has to be completely finished (by finished, I mean: Beginning, Middle, End), but it should be well thought out. A poster shoud not be allowed to simply tap out a few paragraphs in 20 minutes and then post it. He/She should at least take the time to proofread what he/she has written. Threads in violation of this rule should be locked by a Mod.

3) Short Posts, Sentences, Paragraphs, Portions of Stories, Etc
There should be a sticky thread for users to post these types of story fractions. This will greatly reduce the thread overload in the critique forum. Threads in violation of this rule should be locked by a Mod.

4) Bumping
There should be no bumping of one's thread, unless said thread has been seriously revamped or changed in some way. Threads in violation of this rule should be locked by a Mod.

5) Critiques
"I liked it" is not a critique. I do not care is Stephen King, John Grisham, or, dare I say it, Ernest Hemingway posts here. No one's work is flawless. It is your job as a reader to give a story the same thorough read that you expect others to give yours. For God's sake, you want to be a writer. First rule of writing is to read with a critical eye. You will learn more by finding mistakes in the writing of others than all the instructional books in the world.
Oh, and critiquing is not simply telling the poster that they missed some commas, or mispelled a few words. Please take into account things such as plot progression/plot holes, characters, etc.

6) Chapters, or Parts of a Long Serial Story
I think it should be fine to post each chapter in a seperate thread. However, the chapter number/story part should be labeled clearly in the subject line.

7) Revisions
Revisions do not deserve their own thread. This will lead to a big mess, as everyone here should be revising their story. Revisions should either be posted as a new reply in the same thread, or edited to be shown as the original post, with a bump to let readers know the thread has changed.

Derek11 · 06-08-2006, 01:30 PM

At Zoetrope, you have to post several critiques (min. 200 words) before you're allowed to put up you own stuff for reviews.

aliceedelweiss · 06-08-2006, 01:45 PM

I agree, though I never poke my head into the critique forum to read. I hang out in short story. Maybe instead of a sticky, another area "Unfinished"? That will be argued to no end though, its hard to get new areas started.

I certainly think its annoying though when they post like "part two" in the same thread. It annoys me, I don't know why. Some things deserve new threads. Like parts, they really do need there own threads in my mind, it helps organize the critiques. Look at Oasis_writer, Dephere, their parts are very well organized. I understand what you mean with all the new folks,and posting like crazy. I really do agree with those that post should critique.

I'm getting annoyed with people who after getting critiques say "If you want the favor returned just post a link." you can ALSO just go look at "threads started by so-and-so" its a lot easier than being like that.

5 critiques per post. I've always followed that rule. and from there, critique anyone who has critiqued you, unless they just say "Good job," thats not worth it.
Alice

ProudestMonkey · 06-08-2006, 03:14 PM

Yeah, I agree. The Critique forum is a problem, and you displayed great ways to resolve it.

Derek - no spam

Cipher2 · 06-08-2006, 03:17 PM

The problem is that what is a finished work?

If a work is finished there is no point posting it since you are not going to work on it.

And a writer lacking in a certain ability will post a work that is never perfect and no one is perfect.

I usually look through the posts in the critique section until I find something that is interesting and has the possiblity of me posting something helpful on.

ProudestMonkey · 06-08-2006, 03:26 PM

When people are done with a piece, as far as their editting and looking-over is concerned, they come here to get another perspective on the piece. That will help find little errors they overlooked and otherwise. The piece could be perfect in their eyes, and like you said, no one is perfect. So that itself tells us that an imperfect person's perfect work may yet need assistance.

aliceedelweiss · 06-08-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

The problem is that what is a finished work?

Well I think when they say "unfinished work" (and I agree with this too) they mean, one sentence people want looked over, or a beginning, or a few paragraphs. Their she be a word limit to how small you can make a post maybe? 200 words and up? at least in the advice section. then again that would get argued, where to set the limit?

But when you have people that post only sentences to be looked over, its annoying. Though I admit I've done it before, only because I was editing and could not find the right way to use the verbs. And for those who post only beginning?They should post the whole thing and just mention 'I don't think the beginning works.'

Obviously nothing is finished because everyone is editing but I think instead of "finished" a better way to say it is they shouldn't post in little segments.
Alice

Rob · 06-08-2006, 04:20 PM

What's the big deal? All you have to do is scroll down or click on the next story.

aliceedelweiss · 06-08-2006, 04:49 PM

the big deal? well 1. people are lazy (as far as I know) 2. (the BIGGER deal) if you are posting thing in the critique/advice area, there are so many OTHERS that post there, that by the next day your work is on page two. Coinciding with point 1, people are too lazy to go to page two, so you get less critiques. Which is just no fun!

Mind you, I'm not one of those people that post in critique/advice so I'm just stating what I think is the problem (and probably is) so don't think I'm trying to push this to forward my work or anything.

Alice

cacafire · 06-08-2006, 04:52 PM

because there are too much threads, omnius. Have a nice day.

Rob · 06-08-2006, 04:55 PM

Too many threads? Too lazy to go to page 2?

I don't see how there can be too many threads, but there can be too few critiques. So, how do we encourage people to crit more, how do we encourage them to get to page 2 and give it a try?

K-P · 06-08-2006, 05:35 PM

I'm not arguing that there are simply too many threads in the critique forum. I am saying that there are too many needless threads in the critique forum. It's sloppy; in fact, most of WF is sloppy and lacks structure. Would you enjoy walking into a bookstore where the books have just been tossed haphazardly on shelves? Human beings need order, it makes things easier to sort through.
Forumers post on here with no thought on structure, governed by very few rules, and the forum suffers. Frankly, I haven't used writingforums to post a story in some time. I'm tired of it, I'm tired of people spamming storiesand then bumping those spammed posts. It's messy, it's amatuer, and this really isn't the way a writing forum should be.

There seems to be a jump in usage. Two months ago, the lack of rules for posting threads wasn't really a problem. Now it is. Now the critique forum is a mess. The Admins have to straighten this mess up, or they will most definately lose some of this forum's veteran members.

Here are my thoughts on what the structure of posts should be:

Edit: Placed ideas on OP

Rob · 06-08-2006, 05:51 PM

I think, as with most writing forums, you have to take the good and ignore the not so good. That's how open sites such as this one tend to work. There are writers' sites that avoid some of the problems you describe, but mostly by restricting membership or through very active moderation.

A lot of the people joining here are complete novices. If they crash something out in 20 minutes and post it for comments, well, no-one is forced to crit, but who knows, they may get advice on what they posted that helps them become that little bit better than they were before they posted. It's a long road and some are just setting out.

Some of your ideas are fine, but I'm not convinced that the problem is sufficient to require drastic action.

Cheers,
Omni

Cipher2 · 06-08-2006, 05:53 PM

I don't think anyone could dissagree with those points with the exception of number six. If you have decided where the chapter should go then fine but they get swapped around during writing.

More of an issue, I believe, is how this is upheld.

I think that most novice writers have an idea one day for a novel and then the following day they immediately write a kind of prologue or Chapter 1 and then post it asking, "is this any good for a first chapter/idea for novel?"

K-P · 06-08-2006, 05:55 PM

Omnius: Dude, if the forums were organized, then these "novices" you speak of will have a better chance of having their work critiqued. When forumers just post with all abandon, then threads get lost, get jumbled in the mess.
So, if an organized forum would lead to more critiques for new members, then why are you against it?

Cipher: I can see where you're coming from with that. Hmmm.... might require a bit more thought to come up with a solution.