Critique Forum Overload

[Cipher2]

[edit]post rendered irrelevant!

[Rob]

Originally Posted by K-P

Omnius: Dude, if the forums were organized, then these "novices" you speak of will have a better chance of having their work critiqued. When forumers just post with all abandon, then threads get lost, get jumbled in the mess.

No, they don't get lost. They're still there. You just have to scroll down a little, or click on the link to the next page - and many people do.

[K-P]

I still don't understand why you would be against this, Omnius. Of course it is possible to slog through the forums, but wouldn't it be much easier, and much more conducive to the whole atmosphere, if there was some type of organization?

I'm not demanding drastic changes here. These are simple rules that can be easily added to any forum.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by K-P

I still don't understand why you would be against this, Omnius. Of course it is possible to slog through the forums, but wouldn't it be much easier, and much more conducive to the whole atmosphere, if there was some type of organization?

I'm not demanding drastic changes here. These are simple rules that can be easily added to any forum.

Rules? You want number 5 to be enforced by rules? Some people aren't experienced enough to offer anything more than "I liked it," or perhaps a grammar crit, pointing out problems with punctuation. Of course, detailed crits are more useful and more desirable, but all feedback should be welcomed. (IMHO).

Are moderators to go through every thread to assess whether the post is "well though out"? What would we gain? Really? If a post isn't well though out, you can move on (takes seconds) or post something helpful about how it could be better thought out.

The fewer rules the better, I think. Much of what you suggest should be encouraged. But rules? Locked threads? Policing the site in that manner? I don't think I'd like that. Not here, at least.

[K-P]

Rules? You want number 5 to be enforced by rules? Some people aren't experienced enough to offer anything more than "I liked it,"...

I don't believe this is true. Writers should also, by definition, be readers. Therefore, we should have some opinions on the plot, characters, dialogue, etc. Why would a lack of experience cause someone to not be able to critique thoroughly?
Oh, and I didn't call my ideas "rules." They are merely suggestions as to how I believe the structure of posts should be.

Are moderators to go through every thread to assess whether the post is "well though out"?

Yes. That is their job. They are moderators. They are here to make sure the forum runs smoothly. If these moderators are too busy to adequately monitor their assigned forums, then the admin could simply appoint more moderators. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would do it for free.

The fewer rules the bette....

Yup. That sure worked for Uganda.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by K-P

I don't believe this is true. Writers should also, by definition, be readers. Therefore, we should have some opinions on the plot, characters, dialogue, etc. Why would a lack of experience cause someone to not be able to critique thoroughly?

Yes. That is their job. They are moderators. They are here to make sure the forum runs smoothly. If these moderators are too busy to adequately monitor their assigned forums, then the admin could simply appoint more moderators. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would do it for free.

Yup. That sure worked for Uganda.

We need rules here because of something that happened in Uganda?? You'll have to explain that one. This should be good.

[K-P]

Originally Posted by Omnius

We need rules here because of something that happened in Uganda?? You'll have to explain that one. This should be good.

Lordy. I'm simply making the point that a lack of structure, a lack of rules, will plunge this forum into a chaotic mess. Like Uganda. Except without as many land mines.

[Omnisu]

7) Revisions
Revisions do not deserve their own thread. This will lead to a big mess, as everyone here should be revising their story. Revisions should either be posted as a new reply in the same thread, or edited to be shown as the original post, with a bump to let readers know the thread has changed.

A big problem here is, do people actually check that thread after you bump it? If you could add '(revised)' to the subject line, and then bump it, all the people who read it the first time would come back and critigue it again.

And a lot of progress has been made on the land mines. Sophisticated technology has been invented specifically to deal with them. Unfortunatly, Uganda can't afford any of it.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by K-P

Lordy. I'm simply making the point that a lack of structure, a lack of rules, will plunge this forum into a chaotic mess. Like Uganda. Except without as many land mines.

Yeah, I think we have a differing view of how things are right now, I don't see the place as being a chaotic mess, and I don't have a problem with the number of posts or how poorly presented some appear to be. It sounds to me as though you're being a bit over-dramatic. But I don't think we're going to change each other's mind, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, and pray for Uganda

Cheers, and all the best,
Omni

[K-P]

A big problem here is, do people actually check that thread after you bump it? If you could add '(revised)' to the subject line, and then bump it...

Yeah, I believe that giving the OP the ability to alter his/her subject like is a major plus. However, until that is implemented, forumers would just have to PM a moderator to have the subject like changed to show a revision.

Omnius: Cease-fire declared. Not the Palestinian kind, though. If I didn't make it clear, these are simply my opinions (although I believe many forumers share at least some of my ideas).

[Omnisu]

My own post in the critique forum is still on the front page, and high up. What was that problem again anyway?

[K-P]

Simply because your thread is still on the first page of the critique forum does not refute my argument. There are times, especially on the weekends, when there is are too many posts. And, right now, on the critique forum there are plenty of needless threads. Should I point them out to you?

I'm not being a nazi here, by the way. The best forums have strict rules. Take, for example, the Penny-Arcade forums. The mods there are tough, and there are stringent rules as to what and how to post, but it is a great forum, easy to search through and to maintain a discussion.

[valeca]

The thing is, with a forum the size of WF you are never going to please all the people, all of the time. With a user base of over 8000, and two thousand active members, there are bound to be times of over-zealous posting. There are also times when posting drops off. (For the record, the crit forum is almost dead on sundays.) It runs in cycles, just like everything else.

Members join, members leave. Some stay longer than others. That's the way it works in these types of venues.

Originally Posted by K-P

Would you enjoy walking into a bookstore where the books have just been tossed haphazardly on shelves?

Actually, this is almost exactly the way my favourite bookstore is set up. There are also large piles of books just sitting on the floor. There are also two saggy old couches and a bean-bag chair in the back with ugly end tables piled with books, as well as a sales counter that's piled so high the owner can hardly see over it in places. I've often wondered if the books, paper, and other things piled on the shelf behind him are going to topple over one day and crush the life out of him. And the man who runs it all is just as odd as the store. It just makes finding a gem amongst the rubble that much more satisfying. It's dingy and creepy and I adore it.

Some people like order and rigidity. I'm not one of them.

[K-P]

Well, you stumped me with the bookstore metaphore. I also love to visit curiosity shops when there's nothing inparticular that I'm looking for. However, people in the critique forum are seeking advice, seeking help with their stories. When that forum is overrun with rampant, needless posts with absolutely no structure, then any help these people might receive is heavily diluted.

But, if the answer is that there will be no rules enforced in the critique forum, well, I can deal with that. I'll just stay away. But please, please please please, do not let the member's workshop forum devolve as the critique forum did.

[valeca]

Let me clarify here:

It wasn't a metaphor. It's the bookstore I frequent

And I didn't say (or answer) that there will be no rules enforced. I simply pointed out some information. Mine certainly isn't the final word on this or any other issue.