forum articulation notes

[Derek]

The majority of the submitions are critique requests on abstracts. Most of the times the submitions are not efficiently researched and/or not well developed.

I would like us to:

1. have the genres distributed
2. have a section to submit plots
3. dicuss character development, plot development, time management, and narration
4. have a section for those who process thorough their work, and expect a thorough feedback

I made the following questions to myself:

1. what do people seek?
2. what kinds of works are there?
3. what genres are there?
4. what kind of requests are there?

What do people seek?

Critique request
Advice request and offering
Higher level critique
Writing craft discussion
Contests
Research
Resources


What kinds of works are there?

Novels
Short stories
Scripts and plays
Poems
Lyrics
Non-fiction


What genres are there?

Fantasy
Mystery
Science fiction
Horror
Detective, Crime, and Law
Romance
Social
Politics
Military
Espionage
General fiction (anything that doesn't fit on the rest)


What kind of requests are there?

Abstract critique
Plot critique
Character development
Plot development
Time management
Narration
Articles (for non-fiction)


The least suggestion

The least I would suggest is adding more genres:
Fantasy
Mystery
Science Fiction
Detective, Crime, and Law
Romance
Social
General fiction


A re-arrangement of the organization

In an effort to include as much as possible of those elements, I have ended up in the following sections organization. It's a total re-arrangement. I have included less genres than in my original list; I thought that the submitions for those are less and would fit in "General fiction" just fine.

It is not a full articulation, I have focused on the items I am mostly interested in.

I want to underline that next to each genre, there is an "abstract - plot". Each critique request can be either an abstract or a plot. The two I could think of, that is.

Critique request

Novel

Fantasy: abstract - plot

Mystery: abstract - plot

Science Fiction: abstract - plot

Detective, Crime, and Law: abstract - plot

Romance: abstract - plot

Social: abstract - plot

General fiction: abstract - plot

Short story

Fantasy: abstract - plot

Mystery: abstract - plot

Science Fiction: abstract - plot

Detective, Crime, and Law: abstract - plot

Romance: abstract - plot

General fiction: abstract - plot

Script and Play

Fantasy: abstract - plot

Mystery: abstract - plot

Science Fiction: abstract - plot

Detective, Crime, and Law: abstract - plot

Romance: abstract - plot

General fiction: abstract, plot

Poem

Fantasy

Mystery

Science Fiction

Romance

General poetry

Lyrics

Fantasy

Mystery

Science Fiction

Romance

General lyrics

Non-fiction

Art

Social

Economics

Politics

Manuals

The writing craft (or "Advice requests and offering")

Novels

Character development

Plot development

Time management

Narration

Short stories

Character development

Plot development

Time management

Narration

Scripts and plays

Character development

Plot development

Time management

Narration

Poem

Fantasy

Mystery

Science Fiction

Romance

General poetry

Lyrics

Fantasy

Mystery

Science Fiction

Romance

General lyrics

Non-fiction

Art

Social

Economics

Politics

Manuals

Higher level critique

(follows the articulation of 'Critique request')

Research

Science

Biology

Psychology

Sociology

Physics

Chemistry

misc

Geography

Languages

I know the downside of my suggestion, more complex articulation. An idea I initially had, was to suggest to add a tag beafore each post. But the categorised-style seemed more efficient.

One more section, to direct members "where to post?", might be necessary. There may be flaws in my approach but it would be useless to discuss them if the issue of (any level of) re-arrangement is out of the question.

What do you think?

[valeca]

How very thorough.

I appreciate the work that must have went into this post. If I've understood it correctly, I'd have to say the idea wouldn't work.

The idea here is to keep things as user friendly as possible. With the addition of so many categories, there is a (significantly) greater likelyhood that people will post their work in the wrong places. If they have to wade through too many things to try to find the appropriate place, they are likely to A) give up, or B) post anyway and ask staff to move it where it belongs.
It's very daunting (and a turn off) to enter a forum and see an endless list of categories.

Several people have, in the past, suggested that posters give a bit more info in the subject line, but this idea hasn't caught on. Title, genre and word count are helpful, but not a requirement. The rest are covered by the forums that are already in existance (higher crit would be posted in the Writer's Workshop).

oh, and it's 'submission', not 'submition'

[Derek]

I understand. I have another suggestion. I think that people who join the forum start as "novice/beginner users" (meaning they want things simple and straightforward) and end up as "advanced users" (meaning they want more classification).

(To make it easier to explain what I have in my head, I am using "will" like there is a certainity, but there isn't )

We could have a novice section and an advanced section. The novice section will have just 6 categories (classes), one for every kind of work there is. This follows roughly today's organization of "Creativity". I am not yet familiar with all the topics of the Creativity section and that's why I am hesitating to include them in my aritulation. Another reason is that I have focused on the things that interest me. And of course, my articulation is just to make others understand what I am thinking about, it's not complete.

The advanced section will follow the precice articulation of "Critique request" on my initial suggestion.

By default, on first visit, the advanced section will be "merged", meaning that the user will not be able to see it's classes and subclasses. When user clicks, the section will expand. If the user never clicks on it, it will stay for ever merged.

The expanding function utilizes JavaScript, just like the WYSIWYG posts editor, so when clicking to expand (or merge) the section, no extra loading time is required.

No registration is required to expand the section, unless we feel that there should be (like, for example, the Workshop).

A notice/warning will lie above the avdanced section's title in order to inform novice users.

This section's status (merged or expanded) will be stored in a cookie. So the advanced member will not have to click again every time he/she visits the forum.

When someone visits the forum he/she will see something like that:

Novice user critique request

Novel

Short story

Script and Play

Poem

Lyrics

Non-fiction

Advanced user critique request

Advanced user discussion

PS: the "Advanced user discussion" section will also merge and expand. It's contents are identical to the "The writing craft" section on my initial post.

Originally Posted by valeca

oh, and it's 'submission', not 'submition'

I must start using spelling correction

[mammamaia]

I think that people who join the forum start as "novice/beginner users" (meaning they want things simple and straightforward) and end up as "advanced users" (meaning they want more classification).

a false assumption, imo...

as for doubling all the boards, for novice/advanced or whatever, i don't see why it would be necessary, aside from the impossible logistics of even attempting to do something like that...

for instance, at what point will every single 'novice' be assumed to have graduated from that category?... everyone has a different rate of assimilating data and acquiring operational expertise, so how could you make that point fit all?...

finally, who's to do all this re-structuring work?... chrispian has designed [and maintains] the best writer's forum to be found anywhere on the web... it's been working well, for years longer than the few days you've been here telling him how it should work... do you not see more than a bit of arrogance in your critique of it and suggestions for completely rearranging the whole forum?... not to mention, somewhat of an insult to its creator, in doing so?

i do...

instead of using your time coming up with ways to fix what ain't broke, why don't you just enjoy the forum and contribute to it the way the rest of us do, by posting your own work and offering critiques to fellow members who post theirs?... isn't that what you came here for?... or, did you just come to do this?

love and perplexed hugs, maia

[Ben]

I disagree, maia. I think Derek is just trying to help. He thinks that what he's suggesting will be beneficial to us, so he placed a suggestion in the suggestion box.

Sure, what he's suggesting may not work, but he's trying to help. It's certainly not arrogance.

[mammamaia]

you may be right, besh... but he's not giving chris any credit for having given us a great site, is he?

[lisajane]

Maia, his suggestion was not to rearrange the entire forum, it was probably how Derek saw things as being more user-friendly, which unfortunately in this case, would wind up more complex. Hopefully you won't be thinking now that every user who makes a suggeston is 'arrogant'...

[mammamaia]

Hopefully you won't be thinking now that every user who makes a suggeston is 'arrogant'...

...i don't know why you would make such a comment, lj... hopefully, you won't be thinking now that every time i question something in a post, i'm being unkind or whatever you seem to be assuming...

...my apologies to derek, for any misunderstanding... no offense was intended... love and hugs, maia

[Derek]

I took some time off the forums.

Originally Posted by mammamaia

at what point will every single 'novice' be assumed to have graduated from that category?... everyone has a different rate of assimilating data and acquiring operational expertise, so how could you make that point fit all?...

I forgot to mention that when I suggested that thing. Nothing stops a member from posting anywhere he/she likes. But the newcommers will probably want to start at the "novice" area.

Originally Posted by mammamaia

he's not giving chris any credit for having given us a great site, is he?

If I had mentioned anything like "great site, great work", then I would be characterised as a flatterer.

No hard feelings Maia

Oh well, it wouldn't work.

[mammamaia]

If I had mentioned anything like "great site, great work", then I would be characterised as a flatterer.

...no... you'd just be characterized as one who's appreciative of what a good site this is already... and as one who is courteous enough to say so, before suggesting it be completely redone [as if implying it's not good to begin with]...

No hard feelings Maia

...ditto backatcha, derek!...

Oh well, it wouldn't work.

...true... but it was a valiant effort...

love and hugs, maia