Ugly Remnants Part 1 - Censored for bad language. - Writers Forum

Cipher2 · 08-09-2005, 02:24 PM

This is a part of a series of short pieces I am working under the title Ugly Remnants.

Ugly Remnants
Part1

"Oh- how was your day?" Sarah plays with her hair seeing Matt come into the kitchen, maybe not expecting him back.
"Oh. Ok-" he says taken aback; not sure what to read into this apparent indifference. "What you making?"
"Lasagne." She sighs.
"My favourite. I need that today."

Later at the dinner table Matt is enjoying the food, but his mind is occupied with trying to understand what is wrong. He wonders if he had forgotten something he was meant to have remembered. Sarah looks downcast. Trying to fight through the tense chill in the air Matt tries to reach out: "This is great."
"You like it?" Sarah sighs, again, but hopefully.
"No. I love it."
She smiles: a fragile look towards him.
"Are you ok?" Matt holds a gaze, actually concerned.
"Yes - I am ok - why would anything be wrong." She says too quickly.

***

That evening, while they are in front of the TV, Sarah suddenly gets up returning with a water-colour painting saying sadly: "I painted this today. It's a landscape from a photograph."
"That's beautiful." Says Matt though not sure what it is meant to be. Once again that evening there is silence for what seems like minutes or maybe hours then Sarah breaks it, bursting into tears crying: "I am such a talentless wash out," collapsing towards Matt but he has to put a beer down before he can fumble to half-catch her saying "No you're not; you are a great cook. You have a beautiful home. You are beautiful. How can you say that?"
"F**k all that!" She says bitterly, "I have no talent for anything."
"That's not true. What about your writing? You got published."
"Oh yeah, really big time-"
"You did-"
"In some stupid f****ng cat magazine." Sarah shouts bitterly, her eyeliner a teary mess and Matt thinks he smells whisky on her breath.
"All your paintings are great. You do have talent."
"Yeah. Thanks for that appraisal. Really makes me feel better, I must say." The drunken sarcasm painful and too much for the Matt who's already tired.
"Why don't you do that evening class you were looking at."
"You're not listening."
"What...do you want...me to do? I'll get you onto the full-time course. I'll check for cancellations with the colleges."
"That's not what I'm saying, you're not listening."
"You're drunk." Matt replies exasperatedly.

***

Ruben · 08-09-2005, 04:35 PM

I don't really get the story. Is part 2 a sequel for this? Or is this just a short story about, as you said, an ugly remnant?

But besides that you've written good, you successfully bring forth the emotions and I like it. Although there are a few grammatical stuff that I ought to point out.

When having a dialogue, each person should have a different paragraph. This paragraph can exist from solely the thing that is being said (“…”) or the thing that is being said which actions of the same person (“…” he said violently, looking away from the person.)
So basically, when you have a dialogue, you get a new paragraph each time the person changes. Click here if you want a better explenation. (scroll down until you reach 'Dialogue')

Code:

i.e.: 

"Oh- how was your day?" Sarah plays with her hair seeing Matt come into the kitchen, maybe not expecting him back. 

"Oh. Ok-" he says taken aback; not sure what to read into this apparent indifference. "What you making?" 

"Lasagne." She sighs. 

"My favourite. I need that today."

------

Always when you reach the end of what somebody says in “”, you have to use ‘,’ instead of ‘.’ (if you’re not using ‘!’ or ‘?’)

Code:

i.e.:

You have: "Lasagne." She sighs.
Should be: "Lasagne," She sighs.

NOTE: Only when it’s the last sentence between the “”

------

Quote:

"Oh- how was your day?" Sarah plays with her hair seeing Matt come into the kitchen, maybe not expecting him back.

When somebody says something and also does an action, you have to include who says it. An example:

"Oh- how was your day?" Sarah asked trying to sound casual, playing with her hair, seeing Matt come into the kitchen, maybe not expecting him back.

------

Quote:

maybe not expecting him back.

A narrator never doubts, he just says the things as they appear to be. So 'not yet expecting him back' could be used.

------

Quote:

She smiles: a fragile look towards him.

I would try not use ‘:’ for narrating. You could say: She smiles with a fragile look towards him.

------

Quote:

"Are you ok?" Matt holds a gaze, actually concerned.

Same thing as before, best to mention who says it.

------

Quote:

That evening, while they are in front of the TV, Sarah suddenly gets up returning with a water-colour painting saying sadly: "I painted this today. It's a landscape from a photograph."

Use ‘,’ instead of ‘:’.

------

Quote:

…before he can fumble to half-catch her saying "No you're not;…

Comma between ‘saying’ and ‘ “No you’re not;… ’

------

Quote:

bursting into tears crying:

‘,’ instead of ‘:’

------

Also, I often see this mistake. Try to change it everywhere.

Code:

i.e.:

You have: "That's beautiful." Says Matt though not sure what it is meant to be.
Should be: "That's beautiful." Says Matt, though not sure what it is meant to be.

NOTE: I’m talking about the comma after Matt

I hope this helped you in a way,
Ruben

Cipher2 · 08-09-2005, 05:01 PM

Hi Ruben, cheers mate for the comments. Some of them I can accept straight-away like the commas others I need to look into more. For example, there is no rule that states you always need to start a new paragraph when a new speaker starts. That can brake the page up too muc. I'll look through the rest of your comments in detail when I am less tired. Thanks again for the critique. I will look out for your writing.

Ruben · 08-09-2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher2

Hi Ruben, cheers mate for the comments. Some of them I can accept straight-away like the commas others I need to look into more. For example, there is no rule that states you always need to start a new paragraph when a new speaker starts. That can brake the page up too muc. I'll look through the rest of your comments in detail when I am less tired. Thanks again for the critique. I will look out for your writing.

I know that I'm no good explainer, it's in my blood :p I'm happy you like my comment, you're welcome

BTW: About the rule of the dialogue paragraphs: I quote from http://www.writingforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11158

Quote:

Every time the character speaking changes begin a new paragraph.

Cipher2 · 08-10-2005, 03:47 PM

Ok. I have had another look at your comments which are clear. I knew the punctuation of the dialogue would be the problem. It's just that what I am reading at the moment does not have a new paragraph for a new speaker and it is a classic.

Quote:

...'Surely these uniforms are too heavy for the tropics,' said the voyager, instead of inquiring about the apparatus as the officer had expected. 'Of course,' said the officer...

from "In The Penal Colony" in "Metamorphosis and Other Stories" in the "Penguin Classics" series. I have enough feedback to go and redraft it. Maybe it is a modern convention for the new paragraph.

Ruben · 08-11-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher2

Ok. I have had another look at your comments which are clear. I knew the punctuation of the dialogue would be the problem. It's just that what I am reading at the moment does not have a new paragraph for a new speaker and it is a classic.

Quote:

...'Surely these uniforms are too heavy for the tropics,' said the voyager, instead of inquiring about the apparatus as the officer had expected. 'Of course,' said the officer...

from "In The Penal Colony" in "Metamorphosis and Other Stories" in the "Penguin Classics" series. I have enough feedback to go and redraft it. Maybe it is a modern convention for the new paragraph.

Hmmmm, that's weird... I'm kind of speachless now... I'll call in Gigi's help, since she's the expert in this area.

Cipher2 · 08-12-2005, 02:40 PM

Thank you very much for that. Writing always seemed to come easy to everyone bar me when I was at school. So if anything, my disagreements only show my ignorance. It will take some time for me to re-work this one.

I have read your suggestions, Gigi, which are excellent. He does actually catch her but awkwardly. I think I know what I need to work on now.

Ruben · 08-12-2005, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cipher2

Thank you very much for that. Writing always seemed to come easy to everyone bar me when I was at school. So if anything, my disagreements only show my ignorance. It will take some time for me to re-work this one.

I have read your suggestions, Gigi, which are excellent. He does actually catch her but awkwardly. I think I know what I need to work on now.

So the quote you got from the book was a recalled memory (as Gigi thought)?

Cipher2 · 08-13-2005, 02:37 PM

Possibly but I don't think so. In The Penal Colony has many instances of this for example:

'Read it,' said the oficer. 'I can't,' said the voyager. 'But it's quite clear,' said the oficer...

All the stories in that book are laid out that way. Some are only a few pages long so maybe they are memories but there is no explicit or implicit indication that this is the case. For example the title story, Metamorphosis is not a recalled memory and it is laid out in that way.

For the series that I am writing called Ugly Remnants, there are some pieces that are recalled memories and some that aren't.

Cipher2 · 08-13-2005, 06:18 PM

I thought that might be the case....but this is Penguin Classics, and they aren't known for that sort of thing. More tellingly, I have another book published by Vintage Classics- exactly the same thing. So, it must be the author's choice.

Ruben · 08-14-2005, 05:52 PM

Ow, so it's ok if you do it that way? 'cause I would actually prefer that. It's more natural. (to me/for me)

Chris Miller · 08-15-2005, 04:40 PM

Sorry to jump into this interesting thread so late. I enjoyed the piece. I didn't really understand the ending to the story. But that's okay, I had fun getting to it.

The general rule is to start a new paragraph for a new speaker. But it can be and is broken by knowledgable writers.

In some shorts by A. Munroe I saw she did it now and then. If you want to rattle out a conversation sort of stream-of-consciousness or where it isn't that important except in its entirety, then just glom all the dialogue together into one paragraph.

Most rules are guidelines and can be broken if you understand them and why you are doing so.

For example:

"Fuck you," said Dick. "Fuck you," said Jane. "Bite me," said Dick. "You first," said Jane.

This reads totally different when split up. It all depends what you are after.

gohn67 · 08-16-2005, 05:00 AM

Hi Cipher,
Yes, interesting thread. I agree with what Chris said.

Quote:

The general rule is to start a new paragraph for a new speaker. But it can be and is broken by knowledgable writers.

Sometimes if you clump everything together it can make things very hard to follow. And I think that's the main reason why it is done the way it is.
--------

Quote:

"I painted this today. It's a landscape from a photograph."

I loved this line. Seemed very sad and real. Liked it alot.

Quote:

Sarah plays with her hair seeing Matt come into the kitchen, maybe not expecting him back.

Something wrong grammatically here. Comma missing? Not sure.

Good emotion in the second half. I could feel through the dialogue here desperation sort of, her depression.

I wondering what has made her so depressed all of a sudden. I think that will be revealed in part 2.

I think the first part, where you set up sort of a foreshadow of what's to come could use some work. Seems to rushed. I think slow it down a bit. Maybe it's becuase there is a lot of dialogue.

Although I like the present tense. I think this story would read better in the past tense. Don't know why.

Cipher2 · 08-16-2005, 02:20 PM

Thank-you Chris and gohn67.

I am working on the revision and all comments have been assimilated including yours.

The piece leaves a lot of exposition to later pieces.

As for the paragraphing, I know that authors occasionally do something different in Classic or avante-garde literature -- like Hubert Selby jnr not using quotation marks -- but as I am aiming for clarity, in the revision I will use the correct rule to make it easier to read.