Gun Question - Writers Forum

Talia_Brie · 09-28-2007, 07:50 PM

I'm looking for the resident firearms expert.

My character is a professional bodyguard, and I need to knw what kind of handgun he'd be carrying at the moment (specifically looking for an automatic for the increased capacity in the magazine). i.e. what's the one that's out on the cutting edge right now.

I'll also need some detail on the weapon; number of rounds, calibre, availability etc. If the gun can be fitted with a laser sight, that'd be helpful, but it's not essential.

Also, I've heard somewhere that fitting a suppressor to an automatic can have an impact on the recoil, meaning sometimes the weapon won't cock itself. Can someone please either confirm or deny that?

Thanks in advance

fjf1329 · 09-28-2007, 08:19 PM

There are a large number of auto pistols available today and much of what a body guard would carry would depend on his personal preferences. Many people use a 9mm today, a cartridge I consider on the light side to stop a determined attacker. Depending on the manufacture and design of the clip they usually hold up to 16 rounds. As the size of the cartridge increases the number of rounds in the clip decreases due to the diameter of the cartridge.
The high capacity clips store rounds side by side making the grip fairly large.
(uncomfortably so for people with small hands) I think a workman like weapon would be forty caliber. I like Glocks, and Sig Sauers. Pick up a catalogue or go on line or better still visit a gun shop. Look at a couple and handle them.

AS far as suppressor goes, I have only shot one weapon equiped with a suppressor. It was a.22 cal auto. I would guess a sub sonic round would be prefered. I have heard that it might cause a loading failure but I have no experience to verify that.

Talia_Brie · 09-28-2007, 09:23 PM

Thanks mate.

Jeff Colburn · 09-28-2007, 09:55 PM

If you're talking about a bodyguard who traveling with his employer, he probably wouldn't use a laser sight or silencer. A silencer makes a handgun rather long, and it wouldn't fit into most holsters. Besides, if you're in a gunfight, who cares if you make a lot of noise. As for the laser sight, especially with a full auto, it's not needed in a situation that a bodyguard would encounter. A bodyguard isn't concerned with killing a bunch of attackers, but with getting his employer the hell out of Dodge.

I've also know bodyguards to carry grenades to deal with several attackers in one area or to create a distraction. In one case a bodyguard rushed his employer out the back of a restaurant to get away from attackers and dropped a grenade in the restaurant. Lots of collateral damage, but the client was unhurt.

Have Fun,
Jeff

Talia_Brie · 09-28-2007, 10:01 PM

Excellent advice. Thanks Jeff.

lin · 09-29-2007, 12:40 AM

A bodyguard would have not need for a laser sight. That's like a sniper thing and pretty useless anyway.

Don't worry about "cutting edge" or anything sexy. It's just look hokey. The design of automatic pistols hasn't changed much since before World War I.

Nine mm is the vogue lately, but not that different from .38 (in fact many pistols fire both).

There is no point in going any bigger than that because it's tough to conceal. Nines are just fine.

If you want to, your guy can mention that he thinks they're a small slug, which is why he uses mercury-loaded slugs or exploding rounds.

The Browning and Sig Sauer are the hot set-ups in this field, really. Beretta is kind of "sixties". The Sig P299 is very big with law enforcers these days.
As was the Browining 380 before it and the Walther PPK before that. (Not a bad choice for an old-school kind of guy, by the way...the PPK)

The Glock is big and clunky, but will hold 17 rounds, about as much as you can get in one handful.

But here's another way to look at this. Automatics are sexy and all that, but pistols are not as reliable as revolvers and if a round jams, you are screwed.
I consider a revolver to be the stock item for a professional gunfight.
At one time in my life I carried a Colt in .357 with 4 inch barrel, and also a Ruger P91 automatic in .40 that I took in on a deal and grew to like. This gives quick, reliable response with the extended firepower of the 11 round clip in the pistol.

At another time, different occupation, I had a Ruger revolver in .357 and a double barreled shotgun sawed down to about 11 inches with Pachmeyer pistol grip.

That last is completely illegal, which bodyguards tend to try to avoid.

Quote:

I've also know bodyguards to carry grenades to deal with several attackers in one area

Bullshit.

Talia_Brie · 09-29-2007, 01:25 AM

I'm leaning towards the Glock due to the capacity. As you said, it's a big handful. I'm not sure of the differences between the standard, the compact and the sub-compact, but from what I gather it's about capacity vs concealment. EG the G17 (9mm standard) has a 17 round clip, but is 18 1/2 cm long. The G26 (Sub compact) only has a 10 round capacity, but ids 2 1/2 cm shorter.

I think I'm liking either the G17 for capacity or the G21 for stopping, with the 13 .45 rounds.

I don't know. When it comes time to finalise the drafts I'll need to head down to a shooting range and try them out I suppose.

Mike C · 09-29-2007, 03:39 AM

Ahhhhrrrggghh!

Seriously, Talia, unless you're writing gun geek porn, there are only two words you need consider. Automatic and revolver. Glock, colt, calibres, supressors... only about 2% of your readers will give a shit. If I pull out a revolver, place it against your temple and start counting backwards from 5, will you be thinking "Oh my goodness, it's a Smith & Wesson... I wonder if it's a model 64 or a 67?"

Talia_Brie · 09-29-2007, 03:53 AM

That's a fair enough comment. And there's nothing at this moment to suggest that i'm going to spend a dozen pages espousing over the qualities of one vs the other. But this is the sort of information I like to have in the background to add a little to the realism. I may only drop a single reference in the whole book, but I think if I know what I'm talking about, and I know what gun the guy prefers, it adds something to the text. Maybe not much, but something.

Foxee · 09-29-2007, 08:16 AM

I think you need to know the details, Talia, but you may not need to detail them in the story. It helps you to stay consistent, though, if you've researched it. People who are familiar with guns don't have to know exactly what kind of gun to spot inconsistencies.

And I disagree, Mike, Glock might be an automatic but it's referred to as a Glock. There are a few guns like that where they are known by their name. I think it adds a note of authenticity to say what you mean in this instance.

Talia, I remember reading an article about bodyguards at one time (wish I could find it now) about some of the unexpected things they carry for emergencies. I do remember that things like an all-purpose tool were on the list. It's not always all about guns.

I don't remember grenades being included but something like that could easily be an indication of the bodyguard's character (does he put his job above the law? Does he consider a little collateral damage a fair exchange for getting his boss to safety?). There are also other kinds of grenades...flash/bang grenades or tear gas. I'm not sure how big they are you'd have to research it.

Argh, wish I could remember more about the article, sorry.

Edit: a bodyguard carries more than one handgun. His backup may be a small one. I think a Sig Sauer was preferred by the guy I read about.

Jeff Colburn · 09-29-2007, 02:27 PM

Another gun that a bodyguard would carry is a Mac 10 machine gun with a 30 round clip. Very small with a high rate of fire (about 900 rounds a minute).

Have Fun,
Jeff

fjf1329 · 09-29-2007, 02:35 PM

I think you are getting good advice when you are encouraged to stick to basics. You needn't refer to details of caliber, size, etc. unless it is important to the story line. If you don't need it I wouldn't elaborate.

lin · 09-29-2007, 09:28 PM

Except that a MAC is a total piece of crap. And that high cycle rate is a useless waste of ammunition. They only reason people are even aware of these things is because they look cool in movies.

Regarding the details: a lot of books about macho stuff are rife with them because that's what readers want. Tom Clancy wouldn't selll very well if he said, "It was an airplane."

You look at James Bond as an example. You know exactly what model car he drives, what pistol he carries, and why. Some stories get even more obsessive about i.

A character saying something like, "She missed the solid weight of her old Sig on her hip. The Walther was lighter and more elegant and didn't muss the line of her jacket at these formal affairs, but she wasn't that crazy about it." is very typical. Lines like that can get in exposition, size and attitude of the character, setting, all kinds of things.

Somebody who does this very well is Elmore Leonard. You always know the kind of guns his cops carry. And if a main character carries a gun in line of work...you had better believe most writers will tell you what it is, just like they don't say "his car".

So maybe it's just a passing thing where you see a gun. But it's also quite possible that it's a necessary thing for the kind of story it is. Author knows best.

Let me suggest that you google search for IMAGES of Walther, Ruger, Sig Sauer, Beretta, etc. You might stumble across a picture that makes you say...oooo, that's it. Then you read the specs and make it work.

Foxee · 09-29-2007, 09:50 PM

Of course, it would be fun to go to a gun shop with a target range and rent some time with the chosen weapon, too. Nothing like handling the real deal and putting a few rounds through it. But I understand field trips like that aren't possible everywhere.

Just make sure you know the basic features of the chosen weapons. Don't rack the slide back on a revolver because that's impossible. Don't thumb the safety off on a weapon that doesn't have one. Know how many rounds you have, etc.

Talia_Brie · 09-30-2007, 01:49 AM

For me the research is more about getting inside the character. He's very professional, and very skilled, so I think the decision on the type of handgun he'd use is an important one. I need to have in my head that he has made a specific choice, and I want to understand what brought him to that choice.

Hence the question on whether there's a cutting edge weapon out there.

Quote:

Don't thumb the safety off on a weapon that doesn't have one

I just got caught on that. I'd chosen the Glock, and mentioned that he carries it with the safety off. Now I discover the safety on the Glock is in the trigger. Pulling the trigger releases the safety, which re-engages when you release the trigger. Pull it out. Shoot it.

That's pretty cool. I imagine the other makers have something similar.

Quote:

Let me suggest that you google search for IMAGES of Walther, Ruger, Sig Sauer, Beretta

I've done that too. I like the look of the Glock, the squareness of it. And they all seem to be black, which a lot of the others I saw had chrome parts. That appeals to me as well (the black). I imagine I'd be able to get a black Sig though, if I was that keen.