No Big Bang - Page 2 - Writers Forum

Mike C · 05-22-2007, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

My first main part is The Big Bang. any websites you can find that don't support this crackpot theory???

Even the vatican agrees that the big bang happened - they see it as the moment that god created the universe. The last pope gave his blessing to Steven Hawking's research into big bang, as long as he didn't look 'behind the curtain' to the moment before big bang, where the face of god himself may be revealed.

How do you know it's a crackpot theory if you can't be bothered to research it?

I bet you don't believe in evolution either. And that the earth is only 5,000 years old.

nightfire117 · 05-24-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Even the vatican agrees that the big bang happened - they see it as the moment that god created the universe. The last pope gave his blessing to Steven Hawking's research into big bang, as long as he didn't look 'behind the curtain' to the moment before big bang, where the face of god himself may be revealed.

How do you know it's a crackpot theory if you can't be bothered to research it?

I bet you don't believe in evolution either. And that the earth is only 5,000 years old.

The Vatican allows Catholics to believe in both evolutionary theory (in which the "Big Bang" theory is encompassed in) as well as creation. Personally I'm not a Catholic, so I don't know how this works, but I know that is something they allow.

Nobody believes the Earth is only 5000 years old. I know you're only joking, but such extremes make you look foolish.

I must agree with you that you can't call it a "crackpot theory" without researching it, although it is still only a "theory."

Quote:

as long as he didn't look 'behind the curtain' to the moment before big bang, where the face of god himself may be revealed.

I guess that answers my question. Perhaps the Vatican says that before the "Big Bang" was God who created it? I'm not sure on this, I'll see if I can find time to research it, however.

~Nightfire

Beardedtroll · 05-25-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfire117

The Vatican allows Catholics to believe in both evolutionary theory (in which the "Big Bang" theory is encompassed in) as well as creation. Personally I'm not a Catholic, so I don't know how this works, but I know that is something they allow.

In fact, pretty much the only Christian denominations that have a problem with the theory of Evolution is Jehovas Witnesses and certain evangelical protestant churches in the US.

And the Big Bang theory has nothing to do with the theory of Evolution. It's perfectly possible to accept the Big Bang as true without accepting Evolution, and vice versa. These two theories do in no way depend on each other nor do either one imply or strengthen the other. Both of them just happen to be incompatible with a recent creation of the universe.

Quote:

Nobody believes the Earth is only 5000 years old. I know you're only joking, but such extremes make you look foolish.

Lots of people believe the earth is only 5-6000 years old. Do a web search for "young earth creationists": http://www.creationists.org/

Quote:

I must agree with you that you can't call it a "crackpot theory" without researching it, although it is still only a "theory."

"Only" a theory in the same sense that the theory of gravitational attraction is only a theory, or the theory of general relativity is only a theory, or the theory of continental drift is only a theory. That a scientific idea is formulated as a theory does not in itself diminish the idea in any way. To say that it's "only a theory" is to fail to comprehend the position of theories in scientific thought.

Banzai · 05-25-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike C

Even the vatican agrees that the big bang happened

More than that; one of the scientists who was a large part in devising the theory was a catholic.

Hodge · 05-25-2007, 11:53 AM

Yes, but the Catholic church has a history of excommunicating and torturing those who go against the dogma (i.e. Copernicus, Galileo).

Banzai · 05-25-2007, 12:38 PM

True enough, but the Vatican is far more accepting that it used to be. Not that it's the cuddliest, friendliest organisation in the world, by any means.

Hodge · 05-25-2007, 12:40 PM

It is. They used to be the scary-bad guys. But now the southern baptists in the U.S. are...

Mike C · 05-25-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfire117

Nobody believes the Earth is only 5000 years old. I know you're only joking, but such extremes make you look foolish.

Lots of people do. I'm not joking. Not knowing that makes you look foolish.

Beardedtroll · 05-26-2007, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

Yes, but the Catholic church has a history of excommunicating and torturing those who go against the dogma (i.e. Copernicus, Galileo).

Actually, the Catholic church does not have a history of doing so -- or, more accurately, it does not have a history of seeing scientific statements as conflicting with church dogma. Insist that there was no immaculate conception and you might have found yourself garnering the harsh attention of the Inquisition[1], but you would be free to claim that the earth moves around the sun, that objects with mass have gravitational pull on each other, or that the earth is million of years old.

Of course, neither Copernicus or Galileo were tortured or excommunicated -- Copernicus was not even censured or opposed by the Church. Galileo was censured on his scientific statements, but this case is both quite unusual in the history of the Catholic church and it was Galileo's theological statements that actually got him into trouble. In fact, most of his scientific work was funded by high-ranking church officals.

[1] Even the Inquistions were not as harsh or brutal as they are often held to be; by contemporary standards they were quite mild. Now, the Spanish inquisiton was another story, but that was not an instrument of the Catholic church.

Shawn · 05-26-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beardedtroll

Galileo was censured on his scientific statements...

He was thrown into prison for a large chunk of his life for his statements. That's not censorship.

Beardedtroll · 05-26-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

He was thrown into prison for a large chunk of his life for his statements. That's not censorship.

He was also[1] forbidden to claim the Copernican world view as true[2]; something which is.

[1] While formally under the sentence of imprisonment, Galileo was never actually thrown in prison. In effect it was a rather loose house arrest.

[2] But he was not forbidden from exploring the Copernican world view as a hypotethical possibility.

Shawn · 05-26-2007, 02:04 PM

It doesn't matter if it was a "light housearrest" it's still persecution. I doubt you'd feel very great if you were locked in your home and forced to shut up.

Beardedtroll · 05-26-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

It doesn't matter if it was a "light housearrest" it's still persecution. I doubt you'd feel very great if you were locked in your home and forced to shut up.

It was not, however, "thrown into prison." Details matter.

Shawn · 05-26-2007, 07:21 PM

Yes, however, your arguement was that the Church did not utilize persecution to bring about an end.

snapthemagician · 05-26-2007, 11:32 PM

I noticed that there is a lot of bashing here, and not so much of what has been asked for. I know I'll probably be attacked mercilessly for this, and I'll say now that I am NOT getting into a debate, but there IS evidence backing creationists (including myself) and against evolution/the big bang.

A quick google brought this up. I hope it's helpful.
http://www.rae.org/revevlnk.html

I'm sure if someone asked for an evolutionary website with exactly the same words, many would have obliged. Please keep your bashing to yourselves. It's rude and inconsiderate.