How much can a human take? - Writers Forum

imrhati · 12-26-2006, 11:13 PM

I am working on a highly detailed outline for Fragments right now. The main character Helix is a guinea pig in the Orion project meant to create super humans. He is used as a super soldier by the Empire and his enhancements are very obvious.

He can feel pain, but onyl as an alert and is not bothered by it. The idea is that he can take as much damage as is necessary jsut as long as his body still functions. Lets say he is lucky and receives no critical hits to his head or important organs, how much could he take and still make it beleivable?

Hypothetically if he were to take a few bullets to the chest (of no particular caliber), how logn could he live for before he bled to death or somehting else failed?

Is it reasonable for him to be able to stop or slow blood loss, through extra platelettes (sp?) or somehting else?

Raging_Hopeful · 12-27-2006, 12:23 AM

Well you have a difficult task before you: executing a realistic character that hasn't been "done" a million times over. Your profile borders on cliche, bringing to mind 'Terminator' and other super soldier stories. Not to say it is, but from the profile, it sounds similar. I don't know how much is too much because the idea in of itself is unrealistic... in the sense that we don't have super soldiers running around today. So, focus less on making it 'realistic' and make the storyline engaging enough that the reader will be able to suspend disbelief and plunge into your world, whatever world or time that might be.

Good luck and keep writing!

Foxee · 12-27-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imrhati

He can feel pain, but onyl as an alert and is not bothered by it.

I'm assuming this means that he can feel pain without going into shock. Overall I see where you're going with this but it could still be a drawback in some ways.

Quote:

The idea is that he can take as much damage as is necessary jsut as long as his body still functions. Lets say he is lucky and receives no critical hits to his head or important organs, how much could he take and still make it beleivable?
Hypothetically if he were to take a few bullets to the chest (of no particular caliber), how logn could he live for before he bled to death or somehting else failed?

Bleeding out is an incredible variable depending on what is hit (veins vs arteries) and how big the hole is (cannon vs exsanguination from a pin). Not to mention what organs are damaged (they are a life-support system after all).

It also matters what sort of weapon and bullet(?) were used... some bullets fly straight through, some are made to 'tumble' when they hit flesh, some are made to penetrate flesh and fracture. A laser weapon would both pierce and cauterize probably causing less blood loss than conventional weapons and causing shock in a regular person but apparently not in your guy.

Personally I think you're going to have to make an educated guess depending on what his heartbeat is, volume of blood, and damage he sustains.

Quote:

Is it reasonable for him to be able to stop or slow blood loss, through extra platelettes (sp?) or somehting else?

Probably, since you are the writer, you could 'sell' extra platelets to your audience. Another idea (ok, I know it's been done but hasn't everything?) is redundant systems. Two circulatory and pulmanatory systems would keep blood and oxygen flowing to the brain if only one system sustained major damage... and that's what it's all about, really, keeping brain function, etc. going. You'd have to give a little bit of thought as to how it would all pack into the body and I'd feel bad for the surgeon who perhaps works on him later (I imagine it would be complicated) but it's an idea.

As far as slowing his blood flow, this is entirely possible. There are people who can slow their heartbeat through meditation, etc. although it would be a real trick to do during the heat of battle when every system would be going at full blast.

Interesting question.

imrhati · 12-27-2006, 10:55 AM

I am aware that this character borders on uber cliche. I am frankly like characters like that, but I have also given him a weakness; his emotions. The villian is rather good at exploiting that too.

I considered giving him extra organs, but it is a very risky procedure and under the cirumstances of his enhancements it would not have been deemed worth the risk (70% chance of death is my guess).

Now for more info on the getting shot part. here are three scenarios where he is wounded:

He takes a sniper bullet at pint blank through the shoulder. It goes all the way through and breaks his shoulder bone.

He takes a trio of bullets to the chest from an weapon based on the AK47 design. They miss organs and stay inside.

He gets his lower leg glanced by a saw. It cuts his achilles heel but does not take off the foot.

How long could he live in each scenario while still being beleivable?

Foxee · 12-27-2006, 11:09 AM

Wish I could give you a pat answer on this. As it is, I think what I'd do in your shoes is look up some anatomical drawings and see what all is involved at each injury site. I'm sure there is info online about wounds and rules of thumb for how long it takes to bleed out one way and another. The shoulder and the heel injuries sound more disabling than mortal, the shots to the midsection sound more likely to kill him (I'd guess there is a greater volume of blood going through the midsection than the extremeties?) also it's a minor miracle if you can get shot three times in the midsection while missing organs.

My guess is that he could believably hang on for quite a while with these wounds, though couldn't tell you how long. As I said, I think you'll have to do a little searching for that.

Personally, I like the extra platelets, thing, too. Doesn't take up much space and yet would do a pretty good job. No idea how it could be accomplished but I suppose that doesn't have to be explained.

playstation60 · 12-27-2006, 12:33 PM

A lot of things depend on how he is built, how he takes care of himself. This is not to mention the environment in which he finds himself pitted in these battles. If he's shot and able to stop the bleeding right away, he should live in all of your scenarios, baring some kind of unforseen infection.

Need to figure those things out.

wmd · 12-27-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imrhati

I considered giving him extra organs, but it is a very risky procedure and under the cirumstances of his enhancements it would not have been deemed worth the risk (70% chance of death is my guess).

WebMD Says that extra organs would result in a 65.9% chance of death, so you are not far off.

Quote:

Now for more info on the getting shot part. here are three scenarios where he is wounded:

He takes a sniper bullet at pint blank through the shoulder. It goes all the way through and breaks his shoulder bone.

Why would a sniper shoot him at point blank range?

Quote:

He takes a trio of bullets to the chest from an weapon based on the AK47 design. They miss organs and stay inside.

He gets his lower leg glanced by a saw. It cuts his achilles heel but does not take off the foot.

Cutting the achilles tendon (not achilles heel) would not kill him, but he would be unable to walk, or even stand on the foot.

Quote:

How long could he live in each scenario while still being beleivable?

The character is already unbelievable, so why are you trying to make these scenarios believable? Wouldn't it be more believeable for the government project to create him with super fast healing abilities? If doesn't make sense that pain would not bother him, because the reason for pain is to alert the body to a problem. Once that spot is healed though, pain would no longer be there.

Superlagg · 12-27-2006, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imrhati

I am aware that this character borders on uber cliche. I am frankly like characters like that, but I have also given him a weakness; his emotions. The villian is rather good at exploiting that too.

That's also kinda cliche, but it might make for a good character if said emotions triggered the wrong action or thought, or it included some triggerable or background psychoses.

I considered giving him extra organs, but it is a very risky procedure and under the cirumstances of his enhancements it would not have been deemed worth the risk (70% chance of death is my guess).

I'd just give him a tail and say it's full of backup equipment. If they can turn someone into a supersoldier, they can put some backup equipment in and have it be a temporary life support until he can get to where he can get fixed.

Now for more info on the getting shot part. here are three scenarios where he is wounded:

He takes a sniper bullet at pint blank through the shoulder. It goes all the way through and breaks his shoulder bone.

If it is a "light" sniper round, such as a 7.62mm bullet, it'll make his arm almost unusable, as it will either dislocate and sever the tendons, or break the bone and cause muscular damage. A "heavy" sniper round, such as a .50BMG or some sort of gauss or rail gun, then he can say good-bye to his arm, or what's left of it. Also, there are some major arteries and veins in the arms, ones that just love to bleed out.

He takes a trio of bullets to the chest from an weapon based on the AK47 design. They miss organs and stay inside.

7.62mm bullets do some really nasty damage. Three shots to the chest might hit some arterioles or veins and make him bleed like a hypertensive hemophiliac. Maybe not that much, but it's still pretty bad. Likely deadly.

He gets his lower leg glanced by a saw. It cuts his achilles heel but does not take off the foot.

Remember that story with Achilles and his heel? Yeah, same applies here. He's not going to be using that foot for awhile, or much else with the word "walking" in it or without "wheelchair" or "crutches" or "futuristic surgery" in it.

How long could he live in each scenario while still being beleivable?

In all, not too long. Sure, he might be able to live a bit longer with some futuristic thingamajig.

With extra platelets, he runs the risk of a thrombotic blockage in a vital bloodway. In english, he runs a much higher risk of those platelets clotting inside his veins, which can cause deadly aneurysms. Gorey! Though, this could be balanced out by some conditional anticoagulants in his blood that somehow turn off when he gets hurt.

I still like the idea of a tail filled with backup supplies, then he can have a Kevlar sock to cover it!

Raging_Hopeful · 12-27-2006, 09:38 PM

Having your achilles cut is a big deal. Like... really big. And yes, he would lose a shit-load of blood and I'm sorry, but without medical treatment, I find it unlikely he would survive. In fact, most of the scenarios are unlikely... and hey, thats okay, its your story. This isn't my bag so my opinions differ. I think that if you're going to go all out, then do it right. Give him super healing powers like wmd said. Readers just need something tangible to buy into... no matter how contrived. Good luck with your creation!!