Talking & Mutating Animals, Dinosaurs, & Fighting About It - Writers Forum

avesjohn · 12-14-2006, 07:11 PM

In my story "The Boy With The Power" (henceforth TBWTP), in the very far distant future--circa 2525, I don't know--humans are able to create animals that can talk from the real animals themselves. Further, the animals are later modified to allow them the "mutate" into related forms. Further still, dinosaurs are brought back from the past and given these same abilities. And somehow (probably indirectly, that is, getting political), this brings about the end of humanity (think nuclear war). And FYI, this is more for exposition than the story itself.

Key points: the talking/mutating animals/dinosaurs are essentially REAL animals with the abilities to speak like humans, and mutating appropriately requires a great expenditure of their energy. The animals may HAVE these abilities, but they don't USE them because, really, as wild animals, why would they need them in the first place? Can someone please help me find a way to make creating these creatures (which, if technology made it possible, would probably be controversial) a political, international thing that could indirectly lead to the catastrophic end to our race through war?

I just need to make this stuff believable. I don't want an otherwise stupid concept to ruin the great storyline I'm writing.

imrhati · 12-14-2006, 07:28 PM

thta seems a lot more like fantasy than sci-fi. to make a animal talk like a human they would require a voice box, mouth (and all immediate facial structures) and breathing organs nearly identical to a human. This means htey would need to be almost human. Sorry but science may not be the route to making animals talk. Or perhaps you could go with a mental form of communication through thoughts or similar.

Winged Sandals · 12-15-2006, 09:20 PM

Whatever you do, don't involve stem cells. Pretty, pretty please.

But genetics would probably be the key, I'm guessing. Maybe mess around with the creatures' DNA or something. You might take the talking part out because it seems a little isolated from the other abilities as far as the "science" goes, as imrhati said. (Or you might take his suggestion and have them somehow communicate telepathically.) Either way, it's entirely your decision.

Good luck! ^^

Cy Skywalker · 12-23-2006, 02:42 PM

DNA is the way I would go. Chrichton used it, so if you can write it's a viable novel basis.

On movitation: current human problems include resources, entertainment, and religion. I can imagine people genetically engineering animals to work as environmentally safe slaves--to make food, for example, without pollution. They could start as gladiators or pets and grow into intelligence, rather like Asimov's robots.

I just had an amusing idea; the PETA wars.

The creatures gain a certain level of intelligence and the humans are devided over whether they have rights or not. Especially if the animals themselves have a say, this could escapalte into way. And in the 2500s we probably have some pretty efficient ways of killing eachother which could eradicate us.

I don't quite get the 'mutating' concept. Is it, dare I say, like evolving Pokemon? Mind you, I mean no disrespect. That could be useful in either of the entertainment venues I have mentioned. If people have enough tech to make peace, they will want more and more advanced entertainment.

avesjohn · 12-23-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cy Skywalker

I don't quite get the 'mutating' concept. Is it, dare I say, like evolving Pokemon?

Well, yes. Although it was more influenced by the Digivolving in Digimon (I liked both of the "mons"), and is more similar to that in that the animals can revert back to their original form. Remember, though, that the animals don't even bother using it because they have no use for it. Because I think that's how animals would really be. Still, with their increased intelligence, they can control this mutating.

In the novel, set approximately in October 2006 (the distant future is exposition, if that makes any sense at all), 8 kids aged 10-15 are mysteriously and suddenly transported to another world of sorts, Stellaria, where they meet the talking/mutating animals (called Stellorgs - Stellar Organisms) and each one of them gets an animal as a partner. The Stellorgs only start mutating (and even then, only the kids' partners) because their new human friends are in danger. These animals have almost no knowledge of human life - knowing only that it is exists, and that it created them. The main storyline, FYI, involves the kids trying to stop the "villain," Draculor, from killing a human back on Earth, Travis Woodra, whose very distant descendents, as it turns out, will be the ones who instigate the creation of these talking/mutating animals. So, in actuality, Draculor is trying to SAVE humanity. Whose side are you on NOW?

And if that last paragraph made little sense, I'll add this spoiler: Stellaria IS Earth. It IS Earth in the distant future, long after humanity's extinction. The environment and everything has grown back to the way it was before, and the dinosaurs we brought back now share the planet with more modern animals. That sounds unreasonable, but I think I've found a way to make it work

Kimba · 12-23-2006, 05:51 PM

It almost sounds like "Planet of the Apes" ...

imrhati · 12-24-2006, 08:19 AM

Just as a warning the plot line of magically transported to another world is largely looked down upon by many people.

Cy Skywalker · 12-25-2006, 11:50 AM

Couple things I didn't like about this: "8 kids aged 10-15 are mysteriously and suddenly transported to another world of sorts, Stellaria, where they meet the talking/mutating animals (called Stellorgs - Stellar Organisms) and each one of them gets an animal as a partner. " is lifted copyrighted-names free right from Digimon (I'm a fan, btw). "Draculor" sounds like "Skeletor", and the Stellaria-as-future-Earth was pretty predictable. I like how it's unsure whether the bad guy is really bad or not (but his name is ev1l), but I think that this idea will only be saved from repetition by really good writing or theme, or a twist which makes it definatly different from Digimon.

I actually have a 'mon'-inspired novel -- http://www.fictionpress.com/s/1979045/1/-- which I made different in the general atmosphere--it's historical--and in the mechanics of the monsters, though the concept still plays on childrens' desires to have awesome pets or whatever it is that draws us to such things.

I don't want to bash your idea and I don't know what else to say for advice. But make sure you're original.

avesjohn · 12-25-2006, 04:17 PM

As for good writing - you can read the first chapter over in Fiction now, and even I'm surprised that someone (Devon) thought it was "very good," better than most amateur author stuff she's read, apparently. While I did admittedly take the basic story outline from the 1st season of Digimon (I, too, am/was a fan), I have changed the characters somewhat (age [they're all older than their counterparts in that series], names, origin [they're all Americans], personalities, history, future), and even replaced the character of Mimi with Kent, the eldest of the kids. And sure, Draculor sounds like Skeletor (BUT, I didn't even know who Skeletor was until long after I started this), but all the Stellorgs have the -or suffix at the end of their names: e.g., Weaslor, Wolfor, Ursor, Herrerasor, Dilophosor, Tyrannosor, Kittior, Lionor, etc.

Further, it is thematically different, and indeed intended more for adults (although the idea will no doubt appeal to kids); the story has a PG-13 rating. These kids curse, for instance, and the Stellorgs act more like real animals (as previously mentioned) than anything else. They can talk, and mutate, but again, only when necessary (and almost all of the wild ones virtually never do either; really, why would a wild animal need such powers in the first place, anyway, right?). They don't have cheesy (there, I said it) powers to appeal to the children, like fire-breathing or electricity or ice, etc, etc, etc.... There is ONE fire-breathing creature, but it is not a Stellorg: it is a Giganotosor (it keeps a Stellorg-ish name, though), artificially created by Draculor to help him wage his war of sorts. As for themes, the story, while generally light-hearted (again, for the kids), has an underlying darkness, dealing openly with life and death, fate, and the differences (as in behavior) between humans and animals. The humans are reduced, in the wilderness of Stellaria, through the whole of the first and half of the second part of the story, to actively hunting and killing wild animals - dinosaurs if need be - and foraging for fruits and other plant material for sustenance. And the Stellorg partners themselves are not necessarily above hunting other humans' partners (for example, Weaslor and Falcor think about hunting Arborior, a red tree vole, Mike's partner). Granted, their human partners do "corrupt" them somewhat into not hunting their friends' partners, but the fact remains that they are essentially wild animals, and are not hesistant to act as such.

So there you have it. If it's not "definately different" from Digimon enough, suggest something, but keep in mind everything I have above, because, as somebody said supportively when discussing this in another thread, "it could be like Digimon for adults." Which, I suppose, is partly the intention.

And just so you know, all the main and some of the minor characters I've introduced in this story (minus the Stellorgs) are being reused as the same characters (major, minor or even cameo, depending on the story) in my other stories. So while my characters are similar, I've done my best to flesh them out in my own way. Just read the first chapter of TBWTP and tell me what you think.

avesjohn · 12-25-2006, 05:06 PM

I forgot to mention this, before, so I'm mentioning it now. As TBWTP is more of a mature story, in serving as entertainment for adults as much as (if not more than) children, the high body count should not come entirely as a surprise. While the kids do kill wild animals through the first book ("Genesis") and half of the second ("Evolution"), through the second half of "Evolution" and much of the third book ("Extinction"), Draculor and the Stellorgs he brings back to Earth (so far as I have planned out, all dinosaurs, and all acting like real dinosaurs would) bring a considerably high body count. Most notably, at the end of "Evolution," Giganotosor (basically an artificially intelligent, semi-robotic fire-breathing Giganotosaurus, a relative of T-rex), in a battle with Rick's partner Tyrannosor, kills over 400 with his fire, mostly on my own high school campus (which has a 3,000+ student body) and the freeway immediately adjacent.

Further, part of the way through "Extinction," one of the kid's partners (Odobenior, a walrus) is brutally killed and eaten by a Mosasor (a prehistoric giant marine lizard) at a harbor while trying to protect said kid (Tom's) eventual girlfriend (Tom is incapacitated in the hospital at the time); what's more, Tom's father dies in a plane accident not long before, although no one receives word of this until after the Mosasor incident. Also, Tom's abusive aunt and uncle are shot and murdered by Draculor (Phone Booth-style) right in front of Tom and others, the day before. Tom's character is always suffering, so these incidents should not come as a surprise.

And when the military comes in at the end of the story, to aid the kids in the battle, Draculor unleashes an entire (LARGE) pack of raptors (similar to Jurassic Park's velociraptors, but smaller, and coated in downy feathers) that he intentionally starved just to make their attack all the more brutal and ferocious. Not a single one of the soldiers who came with the kids to the location of the final battle (I'm planning on an unfinished skyscraper) makes it out alive. And at the end of this scene, Tyrannosor is killed, along with Giganotosor (also there for the final battle), when the skyscraper collapses. (I've yet to figure out how the kids get out of the situation, but then, I've still got a long ways to go.)

In sum: high body count. Many of the deaths described explicitly at times. Just another difference from Digimon I felt I had to mention.

AdrienneW · 12-25-2006, 05:42 PM

Language is an ability attributed mostly to humans, however, language exists in the animal kingdom, mostly body language, but there are vocal expressions as well.
The probablity that the animals are actually able to speak "english" is slim, because, as some one already said, there is more to it then making noise. The shape of the throat, the mouth, voice box, etc, is all going to play a part in language. The biggest part though is the brain.
For your animals to haver a complex language, like the human language, they will also need higher functioning, more complex human-like emotions and reasoning...this is one of the main things about humans that makes our use of language so complex.
With higher intelligence, more complex emotion, and reasoning ability, you are naturally going to have a "language" develop in your "creatures". Humans, evolved all over the world, and even though civilizations varried, language was developed through all of them.
Your creature's abilty to synthesize human language will rely on their physical limitations. And logistically some will simply NOT be able to form certian words due to their physical constructions. This could be some what fun, as some words could be "changed" to accomidate some species.
Genetically, you have to realize the potential for this to happen could already exist. Very little of the genetic information that actually makes up an animal, is actually in use. Each chromosome has hundreds and hundreds of genes within it, however, the majority of those genes contain junk DNA. There are inactive parts that have simply collected through "evolution". The animal cell has a ton of room in the nucleus, therefore, there is a lot of room for "junk" DNA to collect because the animal need not remove it to make room for new. This is not the case in more simple life forms such as bacteria, which utilize the majority if not all of the coding that they have in their genes.
I am by no means saying tomarrow your dog is going to talk to you "he Bob, my butt itches, mind if you give me a scratch?", even if he suddenly had a super brain, his body would prevent the use of "English". However, any one who has owned a dog, knows that they are able to express a need, they want their butt scratched they press it against your leg and scrub, if you're smart you reach down and scratch it so they go away

But does the potential for an animal to develop a complex language or civilization exist, other then human, sure...all they need is enough time and the right enviromental influences and chance of genetic combination to occur.
What I am saying is the potiential for "brain power" could already exist within any animal genome....we need not even entertain the idea of "adding it" only in activating it.
Now...spontaneous evolution, as in sudden change. And I am guessing you are meaning mass cell development or breakedown. Is it possible? Well animals do regenerate and some animals even bud (clone) and others even complex reptiles, reproduce asexually, so we know sponanous cell construction is possible. I would think, though, for it to happen *rapidly* you would run into the problem of energy consumption. Cells dividing and changing that fast would probably reqire vast amounts of resources. Also rapid cell division and genetic replication would leave a large area open for mistakes to be made when chromosomes are copying and dividing themselves. These "mistakes" could be a source of huge problems or even genetic advances. (mistakes are mutations) When cells fail to seperate properly you could have trisomal gene pairs and depending on which chromosome this occurs at it could be good or bad. Also, Chromsomes break and switch sections with each other under division, you could take liberties that certian gene combinations, via epistasis, create new and exciting effects.
Remember though, unless these changes occur in the germ cells (sex cells) they will not be passed on to the offspring of your creatures, which can be used for or against your plot under the right circumstances. The probability of mutation, could also be genetically based.... Certian genes could be damaged from environmental exposure therefor there would be no back up, in case of "failure" of the first one present. Damage could be as simple as exposure to xray or sunlight...both of which can cause chromosomal damage and create cancers.
You have a lot to play with on the idea...there are many different directions you could take it....

Sounds like fun.

avesjohn · 12-26-2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cy Skywalker

... and the Stellaria-as-future-Earth was pretty predictable.

Hmm...I suppose that makes sense, given that the Stellorgs will be revealing to their partners that humans created their kind as early as the second chapter. I guess that kind of ruins my intended "cliffhanger" ending for the first of the three books that will make up the story. ("Evolution" has a more surprising one, after Giganotosor's destruction of the high school and causing a massive freeway pile-up; the reader should have a real sense of danger and worry. If Draculor is capable of that, what else is he capable of?... Granted, that action sequence is the single biggest in the entire storyline, but the fact remains.)

Anyway, keeping the characters learning of Stellaria-as-future-Earth, much of "Evolution" could be used to show the reader your idea for the "PETA wars". The only question, then - and it's a biggie - is how such a war would play out. The 2500s are a looooooooooong way off, after all. Who the heck can predict the technology we'll have (if we're even still around) 500 years from now? (Maybe another reasearch thread could be created to discuss that?)

Sorry if this post seemed pointless. I just hadn't yet posted my thoughts on that situation's predictability. And don't think I've ignored the rest of your post. I wrote two long responses to it, in fact, just to see what you thought of my planned ideas.

I really do respect Digimon (and Pokemon). In fact, expect an homage (if not a humurous, deliberate, explicit reference) to it in TBWTP. (For example, early on, one of the characters might liken the similarity of their situation to that of the kids in Digimon.) I've been planning such a thing for a while now.

Jolly McJollyson · 12-26-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avesjohn

(think nuclear war)

Why think nuclear war? Shouldn't we think "devoured by fucking super-smart dinosaurs with the gifts of LANGUAGE AND SHAPESHIFTING?" Nukes would be the least of our worries, I'd think.

EDIT: As a style issue, please please please please please please please please please, a THOUSAND pleases, do NOT, under any circumstances, ever ever ever ever EVVVVER name your villain "Draculor."

avesjohn · 12-26-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly McJollyson

Why think nuclear war? Shouldn't we think "devoured by fucking super-smart dinosaurs with the gifts of LANGUAGE AND SHAPESHIFTING?" Nukes would be the least of our worries, I'd think.

Touche. Good point.

Except the dinos aren't necessarily super-smart (and they have little reason to talk, even amongst themselves), and shapeshifting/mutating expends a LOT of their energy (and so that also has little practical use for them).

Still, such creatures running around and devouring and/or trampling us isn't too bad an addition to an already warring civilization.

Yeah, the humans in the story didn't plan things out too well, did they? Idiots.

Jolly McJollyson · 12-26-2006, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avesjohn

Touche. Good point.

Except the dinos aren't necessarily super-smart (and they have little reason to talk, even amongst themselves), and shapeshifting/mutating expends a LOT of their energy (and so that also has little practical use for them).

Still, such creatures running around and devouring and/or trampling us isn't too bad an addition to an already warring civilization.

Yeah, the humans in the story didn't plan things out too well, did they? Idiots.

To begin to comprehend and even have the smallest ability to use spoken language, their brains would have to somehow be greatly improved. I figured the shapeshifting would merely factor in to get them across those pesky oceans.

Also, c'mon, warring civilization? I think when a god damn T-rex comes a-knockin', we'd set aside our differences.