past lives - past loves - Page 2 - Writers Forum

mammamaia · 01-15-2006, 07:53 PM

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No it hasn't... No one remembers stuff from this early on. Very few people remember anything before two years of age, even.

yes, it has, hodge... but i wasn't referring to just 'conscious memory'... you should know that much can be recalled under hypnosis, that the conscious mind can't call up... the hypnotherapist my daughter saw had done a study of pre-birth experiences and documented many cases of people having had an awareness of things happening to/around their mothers while they were still in the womb...

and his is by far not the only such study... the cases in his book and other researchers' reports are too well-supported by verifiable facts to not take as 'proof'...

caitlin...
i got your email... didn't you get my reply?

character1_Caitlin · 01-15-2006, 08:03 PM

Nope did not get the email , I may have missed seeing it in time if it went to bulk, I keep hotmail on exclusive since I dont have anything that needs enlarging or medicating. Only entered contacts go in the inbox and I may have missed adding you in. Can you resend it?
Thanks

mammamaia · 01-16-2006, 09:36 PM

i just resent it... let me know by email if you get it or not... m

Hodge · 01-16-2006, 09:44 PM

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Originally Posted by mammamaia

yes, it has, hodge... but i wasn't referring to just 'conscious memory'... you should know that much can be recalled under hypnosis, that the conscious mind can't call up... the hypnotherapist my daughter saw had done a study of pre-birth experiences and documented many cases of people having had an awareness of things happening to/around their mothers while they were still in the womb...

and his is by far not the only such study... the cases in his book and other researchers' reports are too well-supported by verifiable facts to not take as 'proof'...

caitlin...
i got your email... didn't you get my reply?

Those regressive hypnosis sessions that supposedly revealed "past lives"? Have you read any transcripts? The hypnotists lead the hypnotized on. When you are under hypnosis you are in a highly suggestable state where the therapist can create "false memories" if he or she is not careful. In fact, just a few years ago there was a sex abuse scandal in Canada involving this. Therapists suggested that their patients had indeed been sexually abused, and they came out of their hypnosis thinking they had been when they really hadn't.

And no maia, it has not been documented or proven that children actually form memories before being born. They can react to sensations, but there is no awareness, no perception. No mind. No memories. Even if reincarnation were true, there's no way you could remember a past life because memories are stored in the brain as a collection of chemicals and electrical impulses. You wouldn't be able to recall memories from one brain with a different one.

character1_Caitlin · 01-16-2006, 09:58 PM

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Originally Posted by mammamaia

i just resent it... let me know by email if you get it or not... m

Ok just did now.

mammamaia · 01-16-2006, 10:12 PM

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Those regressive hypnosis sessions that supposedly revealed "past lives"?

...that's not what i was referring to in re the 'proof'... i was referring to the pre-birth experience...

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Have you read any transcripts?

...yes... i was given a copy of the ms before his book was published... and had been involved in many sessions with him myself, so knew the therapist and his technique well enough to know he didn't 'lead' the sessions he documented...

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The hypnotists lead the hypnotized on.

...charlatans do... the good ones don't...

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When you are under hypnosis you are in a highly suggestable state where the therapist can create "false memories" if he or she is not careful. In fact, just a few years ago there was a sex abuse scandal in Canada involving this. Therapists suggested that their patients had indeed been sexually abused, and they came out of their hypnosis thinking they had been when they really hadn't.

...sure, there are horror stories in every field... that doesn't mean that the reputable scientists and researchers aren't coming up with valid evidence...

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And no maia, it has not been documented or proven that children actually form memories before being born.

...yes, it has, in re the 'subconscious memory' i refer to... and i haven't time to lead you by the hand to the studies, if you're so reluctant to accept reality...

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They can react to sensations, but there is no awareness, no perception. No mind. No memories.

...perhaps no conscious memories... but the subconscious can hold much that the conscious mind can't call up on order...

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Even if reincarnation were true, there's no way you could remember a past life because memories are stored in the brain as a collection of chemicals and electrical impulses. You wouldn't be able to recall memories from one brain with a different one.

...there is much we paltry humans do not know... and arrogance doesn't fill in those gaps of knowledge... if there does exist some form of reincarnation, it's perfectly possible for the 'collective' consciousness of prior lives to exist on a deeper level, from where it can be sometimes brought to the surface with hypnosis... i'm not arrogant enough to claim i can be sure that anything's impossible... are you?

Hodge · 01-16-2006, 10:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Maia

...yes... i was given a copy of the ms before his book was published... and had been involved in many sessions with him myself, so knew the therapist and his technique well enough to know he didn't 'lead' the sessions he documented...

There's actually something I forgot to mention, too: if the patient already has it set in his or her mind what's going on, that can also create false memories. This phenomenon is seen a lot in alien abduction cases—the person sees a special on TV, thinks his sleep paralysis is an alien abduction experience, and creates false memories during hypnosis.

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Originally Posted by Maia

...sure, there are horror stories in every field... that doesn't mean that the reputable scientists and researchers aren't coming up with valid evidence...

This isn't just a horror story. This is a complete misunderstanding of a very comples thing. Researchers barely even knew about the potential to create false memories before this scandal—and it was very recent. 2000 or 2001, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Maia

...yes, it has, in re the 'subconscious memory' i refer to... and i haven't time to lead you by the hand to the studies, if you're so reluctant to accept reality...

Subconscious memory? Not sure what you're talking about here. There is a body of evidence supporting the notion that people can repress their memories, and thus shove them into the subconscious (and there's also a body of evidence supporting the notion that hypnosis can dig these up), and there are other centers of the brain that help us learn things involving our motor skills (like riding a bike or knitting), but those aren't really memories.

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Originally Posted by Maia

...perhaps no conscious memories... but the subconscious can hold much that the conscious mind can't call up on order...

Except that long term memory comes from one part of the brain in all cases, and it does not begin functioning until the age of two or three.

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Originally Posted by Maia

...there is much we paltry humans do not know... and arrogance doesn't fill in those gaps of knowledge... if there does exist some form of reincarnation, it's perfectly possible for the 'collective' consciousness of prior lives to exist on a deeper level, from where it can be sometimes brought to the surface with hypnosis... i'm not arrogant enough to claim i can be sure that anything's impossible... are you?

Sure, there is much we don't know. But you can't argue against logic. Our memories are not ethereal ideas that exist on some magical plane of existence. They are physically stored in the brain, much like information is stored on a CD. And our memories are even subject to change over time! You may remember some event where a woman was wearing a red shirt for twnety years, only to remember it as a yellow shirt and remember remembering it as a yellow shirt the next day. Memory can't be trusted.

And just because something isn't impossible doesn't mean everyone should automatically accept it as real or likely.

I'm going to guess you go for the Jungian school of thought.

mammamaia · 01-16-2006, 11:57 PM

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There's actually something I forgot to mention, too: if the patient already has it set in his or her mind what's going on, that can also create false memories. This phenomenon is seen a lot in alien abduction cases—the person sees a special on TV, thinks his sleep paralysis is an alien abduction experience, and creates false memories during hypnosis.

no argument there... it's a common happening... still doesn't mean all things dredged up under hypnosis are unreliable...

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This isn't just a horror story. This is a complete misunderstanding of a very comples thing. Researchers barely even knew about the potential to create false memories before this scandal—and it was very recent. 2000 or 2001, I believe.

that was 'horror story' as in a real horror, not fiction!... and 'false memory' cases go back way before 2000... i've studied such phenomena for decades... in part, while i was doing a massive amount of research and paralegal work on 2 cases of child rape/incest, for 4-5 years in the 80s!...

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Subconscious memory? Not sure what you're talking about here. There is a body of evidence supporting the notion that people can repress their memories, and thus shove them into the subconscious (and there's also a body of evidence supporting the notion that hypnosis can dig these up), and there are other centers of the brain that help us learn things involving our motor skills (like riding a bike or knitting), but those aren't really memories.

then, you need to do some research studying, it seems, before claiming something doesn't exist that actually does...

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Originally Posted by Maia
...perhaps no conscious memories... but the subconscious can hold much that the conscious mind can't call up on order...

Except that long term memory comes from one part of the brain in all cases, and it does not begin functioning until the age of two or three.

'except' meaning what, exactly?... what is it you are disagreeing with here?

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Sure, there is much we don't know. But you can't argue against logic.

i don't... you're the one who seems to be doing that... logic and reason inform all that i might 'conclude'... although even when i come to an informed conclusion, i can still accept that the only thing we humans can be sure of is that we can't be sure of a darn thing...

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Our memories are not ethereal ideas that exist on some magical plane of existence.

i don't see anyone here saying that, but you...

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They are physically stored in the brain, much like information is stored on a CD.

no, duh!... have you ever had an eeg?... i have... it's absolute proof that what we call 'the mind' consists of electical energy that can be measured, transmitted, and received...

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And our memories are even subject to change over time!

double 'no duh!'... do you think you're coming up with anything new here?...

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Memory can't be trusted.

'conscious' memory can't, because it's mixed up with so much external stuff that it's subject to confusion with what others remember and have told you, for one thing...

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And just because something isn't impossible doesn't mean everyone should automatically accept it as real or likely.

who said everyone should?... you sure read a lot of what i'd never even think, into what i say... how come?... that said, if something is accepted as 'not impossible' any logical-thinking person would at least be able to admit it could be 'likely'...

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I'm going to guess you go for the Jungian school of thought.

that's about as right as all the stuff you're putting in my mouth/fingers that i never said... i don't 'go' for anyone's 'school of thought' but my own... as a practicing philosopher, i come to my own conclusions/guesses based only on what i study/observe/experience... not on anyone else's guesswork... and certainly not on any psychiatric model!

Hodge · 01-17-2006, 12:35 AM

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Originally Posted by maia

no argument there... it's a common happening... still doesn't mean all things dredged up under hypnosis are unreliable...

But it does mean hypnosis sessions that are not tightly controlled are unreliable. As well as sessions where the person goes into it thinking he/she had a past life, which I would assume probably is the case in nearly all of them, because hypnosis isn't used much in therapy anymore and what are usually found by accident are traumatic memories.

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that was 'horror story' as in a real horror, not fiction!... and 'false memory' cases go back way before 2000... i've studied such phenomena for decades... in part, while i was doing a massive amount of research and paralegal work on 2 cases of child rape/incest, for 4-5 years in the 80s!...

Yes, false memories go way back, but we had a very limited understanding until the Canadian government made the mistake of making repressed memories uncovered via hypnosis permissible as evidence in court. Many innocent people were put in jail because of it.

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then, you need to do some research studying, it seems, before claiming something doesn't exist that actually does...

Or you could just tell me what you're talking about. Memory is a conscious function except when the mind (and whether this actually happens is debatable) represses a memory (but it still manifests some way).

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'except' meaning what, exactly?... what is it you are disagreeing with here?

You went back to memory. One structure in the brain deals with creating long term memory: the hippocampus. It does not function until you reach the age of two or three.

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i don't see anyone here saying that, but you...

You're claiming that people can call up past experiences from a past life. Memories are stored in the brain. Either you're arguing that memories exist on some other plane that you can access or that you have the same brain now as you did in your past lives, and I don't think I need to point out why that's not true.

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that's about as right as all the stuff you're putting in my mouth/fingers that i never said... i don't 'go' for anyone's 'school of thought' but my own... as a practicing philosopher, i come to my own conclusions/guesses based only on what i study/observe/experience... not on anyone else's guesswork... and certainly not on any psychiatric model!

It's not a psychiatric model. It's a very influential school of psychological thought that I see popping up in your posts quite often. It's okay to say others have influenced you, maia. It's even okay to say some people have influenced you more than others. That's all that we are, you know. A collection of influences from other people.

mammamaia · 01-17-2006, 06:32 PM

at my age [67], i don't need you [barely 20?] to tell me what's ok, hodge... i'm quite comfortable with admitting anything at all, thank you... as for jung, i've never read his work... only seen bits of references to it here and there, so no, i've not been influenced by his pov...

it's best we agree to disagree at this point, since you're clearly not willing to open your mind to the probability that you don't know quite everything yet... given a few more decades of study, observation, and experience, i've no doubt you'll 'know' less and entertain the possibility of more...

Kira the wanderer · 01-18-2006, 08:12 PM

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Originally Posted by character1_Caitlin

Your right , that is creepy. I know some twins, I dont think I will ever look at them the same now

haha.

Sorry for that, but I thought it was interesting. Haha, still creepy though.

character1_Caitlin · 01-18-2006, 08:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Kira the wanderer

Sorry for that, but I thought it was interesting. Haha, still creepy though.

Well I ended up writing a new story for this theme , did not put it the eventual novel. Im doing a short story.

Kira the wanderer · 01-18-2006, 08:19 PM

I see. Well if the diea ever comes around again you have plenty of feedback here.