First Person, Third Person, POV - Writers Forum

ronndonn · 09-30-2005, 03:34 PM

I've been passing the first chapter of my book out to readers for feedback. In general, they tell me, "it is engaging and easy to read."

The last reader I got was from our local writers club and she said, "Oh, you are moving from a first person point of view (internal dialogue) to third person, and back again. She said, "that is a no no, you can't do that."

Is there anything to what she is saying? Are there rules about moving from one POV to another? It just seems like a very normal writing style for me, and my readers don't seem to have any problem with it. Any thoughts on this POV thing?

Thanks.

Crazy_dude6662 · 09-30-2005, 04:23 PM

i always thought you could as long as it dosnt change like every second line. but as far as i know its okay

Hodge · 09-30-2005, 08:58 PM

Can't do it unless it's a character telling a story in first person or if you section off the first person POV and third person POV.

JustJim · 10-02-2005, 04:17 PM

It's your story and you can do anything you want, however, that doesn't mean that your story will be published. What is important is that you not confuse your reader and that the story flows well. In general it's better not to change from first person to third (or Vice versa) in the same chapter, or to change if you don't have a good reason for doing so. In other words, you shouldn't do it from careless writing; from not knowing what you are doing.

As an add on, my preference is always for third. The only time I use first (I think) is when I want to withhold information from my main character and therefore from my reader. When writing in first, everything my character knows should (will) ,as soon as possible, be told to the reader.

Hodge · 10-02-2005, 08:04 PM

That's not a first person POV, Starr. Those would be thoughts, which follow the same rules as dialogue. Or monologue, in this case.

Kane · 10-02-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

In the example I could have stuck to the third person: "He knew he shouldn't have gone there. He didn't like surprises."

Quote:

Dave opened the door and jumped. I knew I shouldn't have come here, he thought. I don't like surprises.

These are both examples of 3rd person POV; one being narrative, and the other monologue/internal dialogue...

Whatever you're writing, and however you're writing it, you can pretty much do what you want. Just make sure that you are breaking the "rules" rather than simply being ignorant of them, and, if you want any one to read it, your prose should flow well and make sense.

Nimbus1944 · 10-02-2005, 09:55 PM

There's no problem with a narrator being one of the active characters, if that's all you're doing. That's a common thing, e.g. A Cask of Amontillado. Just in case your reviewer spotted an actual POV error, check where the narrator takes part in dialogue to see if there's any instance where "he said" was accidentally inserted, or where the narrator referred to himself in third-person or by name.

As to actual mixture of POVs, they've mentioned two good methods above -- separate them completely, and/or do first-person comments as thoughts. Adding to Starr's comment, it would do well to put thoughts in italics, without quotes --

Dave opened the door and jumped. I knew I shouldn't have come here, he thought. I don't like surprises.

Kane · 10-02-2005, 10:42 PM

It isn't necessary to use italics to show thoughts. Switching back and forth between italics and regular type can be distracting.

Hodge · 10-02-2005, 11:43 PM

Read Ender's Game—Orson Scott Card is, in my opinion, the most skilled writer when it comes to getting inside a character's head in third person.

Shepard · 10-04-2005, 12:03 AM

One word: Nabokov. Hell yes, you can move between first and third. Now, second - that's tricky.

Hodge · 10-04-2005, 12:43 AM

You can't move between first and third... You can make the narrator a character like Vonnegut often does, but you can't just switch from the narrator being an impartial third person camera to being an actual character.

RedLady · 10-04-2005, 07:10 AM

As a writer, I use third person POV, and if I need to use write in the first person I write it as thoughts instead of actually the POV. But that's just my preference

As a reader, I feel that if the POV was constantly changing, it'd put me off. I'd say you can do whatever you want with your story, but that's just my opinion.

Anarkos · 10-05-2005, 01:49 AM

Sure, send me a copy. I doubt you did, as all the examples you've listed are not switching from third to first but quoting his thoughts (internal dialogue).

Normally, switching perspectives within the main text of a work is a bad, bad thing.

Also, be wary of whose critiques you trust. Friends - often the first place people turn to - are the least reliable, as they tend to just make you feel good with positive comments no matter what.

GhostingReality101 · 10-22-2005, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodge

You can't move between first and third... You can make the narrator a character like Vonnegut often does, but you can't just switch from the narrator being an impartial third person camera to being an actual character.

Could you have your narrator be more than one main character that is telling the story from different points in time while not giving away who is telling certain parts of the story until later on?

mammamaia · 10-23-2005, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Could you have your narrator be more than one main character that is telling the story from different points in time while not giving away who is telling certain parts of the story until later on?

...you could do anything you want, as it's your story/book... the point is, who would want to publish/buy/read it, if you did that?... only the most adept of the all-time masters of fiction can get away with switches in pov and other conceits, like keeping the reader in the dark about who's doing the telling... and even some of the greatest of the greats have failed to put such fancy stuff over well enough to make it work for most readers...

if you're a beginner, and/or not yet published, you'd do better to stick to the time-honored 'K.I.S.S.!' principle, if you want to maximize your work's chances of being taken seriously by agents/editors...

hugs, maia