Things to do with the 4 basic elements. (This could be fun!) - Writers Forum

Verago · 09-06-2005, 08:30 PM

In my story, the spellcasters can only do a certain amount of things to the Elements, once they have a source of a particular under their control.

Examples of things they can do to elements they have control over:
(Note: they can only control a few objects at a time; for example, if they tried to Harness a blade of grass, it would have Earth elements and Water elements in it. The Earth and Water would be together, so, if the caster wanted to use a Water spell, s/he'd have to Separate the Water from the Earth first, and then cast the spell.)

--Separate--separate all the Elements in an object into their basic states.
--Combine--combine/add to something with either another element or elements, or more of the same element.

There are a few others, but they don't have names yet.

Any help would be appreciated; I need ideas of what you could do with an Element once you control it.

Verago · 09-06-2005, 09:46 PM

Erm...not exactly what I was looking for...

Kokoriet · 09-06-2005, 11:51 PM

Hmmm, sounds like an anime called Full Metal Alchemist. Principal behind "magic" in that world required lots of science and making circle diagrams etc. to perform the casting. They turn one object into another, but only with the knowledge of what is inside the object they are transmuting ,and what they want it to do.

I'll see if I get any ideas on how to help you later.. I had the same kind of system in my story, but I wasnt sure how to go about it, so I dropped it for a long time until everything else was nailed out

blademasterzzz · 09-07-2005, 01:22 AM

Stop mentioning your fucking story!!!!!!!!!!

Kokoriet · 09-07-2005, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verago

Examples of things they can do to elements they have control over:
(Note: they can only control a few objects at a time; for example, if they tried to Harness a blade of grass, it would have Earth elements and Water elements in it. The Earth and Water would be together, so, if the caster wanted to use a Water spell, s/he'd have to Seperate the Water from the Earth first, and then cast the spell.)

--Seperate--seperate all the Elements in an object into their basic states.
--Combine--combine/add to something with either another element or elements, or more of the same element.

Alchemy from FMA is probably still the best way to deal with this still I think.. its all that came to mind

3 principles:

Understanding- knowledge of whatever is in the substance. This is essential for tramuting(magic). ie. A person that wants to turn a tree into paper, having no idea what makes up either of them, would not be able to do it. <- They essentially have to know what to tell the "magic" to do.

Decomposing- seperate all elements of the substance.. or seperates every molecule A.K.A blowing it up.

Recomposing- Combining all the elements in a different fashion, to suit whatever the caster(alchemist) requires.

I'm not sure about using "unconventional" elements, as the response from readers would be rather diverse.. it could flop or it could be too non-cliche for comfort.

I've seen: Light, blindness, death, life as the primary elements in one instance.

Stewart · 09-07-2005, 05:38 AM

A quick lesson for you: there's a rat in separate.

Anarkos · 09-07-2005, 07:27 AM

Why do so many fantasy writers go back to the four so-called "elements", when they are meaningless and plain wrong?

It it just that it sounds snappier than Hydrogen Based Magic (TM)?

Verago · 09-07-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor Wolf

A quick lesson for you: there's a rat in separate.

Burned. >_<
Fixed.
Thanks.

And I really don't want to mimic FMA...If this system seems to close--and I think it does--I may have to refigure some things.

mammamaia · 09-08-2005, 09:29 AM

something to consider... there are really only three basic elements: water; air; earth...

fire, which is erroneously considered the fourth, is actually only a catalyst that acts upon and changes all the three basics... it can't exist on its own, as they do, but only exists in concert with one or the other...

for more on this, see 'essential trinity' in the essay section of my site...

mammamaia · 09-08-2005, 09:54 AM

not merely 'combusted air' though air must be present to produce flame... regardless, i don't consider it being 'different' from the elements it acts upon to be sufficient reason to include it as one of them, rather than as the catalyst it truly is...

but i'm not going to try to convert you, so i'm outa here...

Verago · 09-08-2005, 05:59 PM

Newsbreak: I'm thinking about developing a unique magic system, possibly the first of its kind.

On Topic:
I agree with Mamma's ideas on the subject, but it is more widely accepted that fire is the fourth of the 4 ''basic'' elements.

Anarkos · 09-08-2005, 06:44 PM

Really? I thought that the only thing the four "basic" elements were accepted for today are bad fantasy novels...

Verago · 09-08-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarkos

Really? I thought that the only thing the four "basic" elements were accepted for today are bad fantasy novels...

Yeah, that's what they're mainly accepted in...I mean, if you go up to someone and ask what they think are the basic elements, or the mythological basic elements, odds are they'll give you fire, water, earth, and air. I never said anything about the kinds of novels they're present in...though you're right.

Kokoriet · 09-08-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammamaia

something to consider... there are really only three basic elements: water; air; earth...

fire, which is erroneously considered the fourth, is actually only a catalyst that acts upon and changes all the three basics... it can't exist on its own, as they do, but only exists in concert with one or the other...

for more on this, see 'essential trinity' in the essay section of my site...

I'm going to go take a look now, but before I do we need to consider the fact that we only realise fire relies on other "elements" only because of science.

Set a story before such studies took place, and fire is a power both frightening and awe-inspiring.

People could regard as something similar to life couldn't they? They are well, in a sense putting something together to create something entirely new that lives and acts in it's own right, dependent on it's parents (the wood and air) before perishing, much like creating a child..

When people try to define their existence, flame or something like it would take precedence (IMO) People cannot live without flame/heat, as much as they cannot live without air or water, or earth underfoot.

Eh,thats just me,sorry for babbling *blush*

Anarkos · 09-08-2005, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilyak1986

Anarkos, old adage here...nothing nice to say, don't say it.

Sweet then, kiddy, but practice what you motherfuckin' preach someday, cool?

I just find it annoying and depressing that one mistaken view of the elements has become so over-used and cliche. What about creating a magic system that isn't based on such a tired mistake? Where'd the damn creativity go?