Buidling an atmosphere on the moon? - Writers Forum

Drzava · 07-03-2005, 06:22 PM

Is there a way to do so in theory? Be it adding mass to the core or dumping some chemicals or something? What technologies do we have today or in the distant future could we use in order to make the moon inhabitable? Just a good background story, nothing extremely detail oriented.

journyman161 · 07-04-2005, 12:19 AM

Set up a fusion reaction in its core. Spin the reactor. Then start mining & release the gas products to the surface.
The magnetic filed of the reactor generates a field that helps keep the solar wind from stripping away what you release, as the moon has a much smaller gravity well than earth. without some protection the solar wind will remove anything you attempt to use to create the air.

There's water & O2 in the rocks as well as lots of other (mainly lighter) minerals & metals

You could smack a comet into it to give it water & gases.

Drzava · 07-04-2005, 12:39 AM

I was thinking a comet also, but what if it was so big it knocked the moon off it's course, or added too much mass and messed up earth? An impact would help it speed up allowing farms and whatnot for sustinence.

It's times like these I knew more about science, the prospect of terraforming is interesting but I don't know much of anything about it

journyman161 · 07-04-2005, 12:49 AM

You can handle the shock of impact by putting the comet into a descending orbit around the moon so it strikes at a tangent rather than front on.

Add mass to the moon & you'll affect tides & maybe weather on earth. (maybe, because it depends on what the tidal changes do to the ocean currents, which are the major heat transfer system on the planet)

Not sure what you mean by impact helping to speed it up. Do you mean if we increase the rate of spin of the moon, it would be better for growing things?

The grazing impact above if calc'd right could be used to change the spin & also, changing mass of the moon would mean the tidal lock to earth might change.

But keep in mind, the mass of even a 10 mile wide comet pales to insignificance beside the moon's mass. you're going to need large mass or very high speed to significantly affect the moon.

However a minor effect could slowly become a hazard. eg: changing the moon's orbit into a slow spiral in to earth would wipe us out sometime in the future.

SciFiGuy · 07-04-2005, 07:42 AM

One could build a worldhouse to perform some sort of paraterraforming, perhaps. This would be a terribly difficult task, at least at this stage of our civilisation.

http://www.orionsarm.com/civ/Worldhouses.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrafo...raterraforming

mammamaia · 07-04-2005, 10:28 AM

don't think it would be possible to add a 'natural' type atmosphere to earth's moon, but it's certainly within the realm of possibility to have city-sized 'bubble-enclosed' areas where an atmosphere can be created and trapped to provide living/working space for sizable populations... any number of sci-fi books/films can show you how...

Sareth · 07-04-2005, 10:37 AM

I see three major issues here.

As already mentioned, the lack of a magnetosphere (created by the liquid iron core of the Earth, which the moon lacks) creates problems with the atmosphere being stripped, Solar radiation reaching the surface in life killing levels, etc. That one I have no solution for.

Second, the lack of spin (called tide-lock) would result in days lasting weeks, followed by nights lasting weeks. Very bad for crops and temperatures. You can solve this with a glancing blow by one mother of an asteroid or comet. However there are so many variables and risks in this (knocking the moon into a new, dangerous orbit; massive shrappnel deflecting toward Earth...) I imagine it would give any good astronomer a case of the hives just thinking about it.

Third, an atmosphere would require an increadable amount of materials. I doubt that the ice-water recently found on the moon is in sufficient ammounts to serve. You'd need to bombard the moon with litterally MILLIONS of smaller comets (too large, and you lose a significant percentage of your materials as ejecta). Even so, the proper proportion of elements may not be established (I can't remember exactly, but isn't Earth's atmosphere 70% nitrogen? I don't know if comets have that same basic ratio).

I don't know if it would be acceptable for the story you're focused on, but I recomment you terraform Mars or Venus, both of which already have atmospheres and orbit within (barely) the commonly accepted zone where life is possible around the Sun.

Verago · 07-04-2005, 11:24 AM

I guess--though this would be highly unlikely to EVER happen--the moon could be hit by a comet, knocking it within range of our atmosphere, and have it steal a little bit, and then have another comet hit it back, or have someone launch a nuke at it...
The nuke could start a reaction at the core of the moon, create magnetism, etc...
Maybe. I don't know. I could be wrong. Or maybe I do know, and I'm simply lying to you. I'll never tell...

Ethan.

Drzava · 07-04-2005, 11:36 AM

Doesn't Mars have the same problem in regards to lacking an elctromagnetic sphere? Would that stop it though from having an atmosphere like Titan or Earth (but does Titan have an active core? I don't know.) Venus would be quite difficult to terraform unless it's done by a big air conditioner company

From what little I've been reading it concurs with Mars being the best bet. However, I wanted to read a story about Lunar independence, I can't find any so I figured I'd do it myself as a fun little project. There are already several books, movies, and games about Martian independence, so, although realistically speaking, it is the best choice, it isn't for this situation.

I still haven't established a motive even for terraforming the moon. The Earth is so packed we need sprawl to grow plants? But they won't grow. People are terraforming Mars and the moon is a good base to use? But if we can terraform Mars I'm sure transportation efficiency would be greater so there doesn't need to be a stop. There are minerals? Maybe if Acme brick is sponsoring the whole thing?

Verago · 07-04-2005, 11:43 AM

There's that new solar powered prototype satellite thing they made can travel for a loooong time. Maybe you could make it go down, or have the pressurization or something go arye, and they'll all die in one year if it isn't fixed, and have NASA need to create something on the moon for them to dock for repairs.

Ethan.

Shawn · 07-04-2005, 12:00 PM

Didn't NASA or someother entity release moss onto a planet to build an atmosphere?

The idea is intriguing but I have no idea how it would work.

Sareth · 07-04-2005, 12:05 PM

Well, as to Mars not having a good magnetosphere you may be right. i can't recall.

Venus does have one. Yes, it is a very hot place owing to a combination of proximity to the sun and an atmospher that has a collection of greenhouse gasses the likes of which makes our industrial emissions seem like pikers. However, if you could find a process to scrub the green house gasses from the atmospher (most likely using biological agents, bacteria, which metabolize things like sulpher and release free oxygen and water) and in theory you can cool it to the point it would only be like living in, say, Bangladesh during the summer.

Drzava · 07-04-2005, 12:30 PM

One of the most popular methods for cooling it, it seems, is to use a giant sun blocker, I don't know how pricy that could get. I'm pretty sure it would have to reside in space though...

journyman161 · 07-04-2005, 10:56 PM

Venus not only requires taming of runaway greenhouse, but you'd also have to strip a good part of the atmosphere away to reduce the killing pressure. It also seems rather volcanically active, so that would need a solution as well.

Mars would need both thicker atmosphere & a stronger magnetic field to keep out enought solar radiation to let us live there, but domes could be used.
It would also probably need to be re-fired in the core to increase the ambient heat to liveable levels.

Titan & Ganymede suffer from lack of insolation & it's likely their core activity is due to the kneading effects of the nearby gas giants.

On the other hand, a few advances in genetic technology would maybe allow crops to grow in vaccuum or on the open martian landscape. Black wheat growing on the ice of titan under a methane atmosphere?

Philo · 07-05-2005, 12:00 AM

I don't think you can terraform the moon, the gravity is too low. I think it would dissipate into space. You'll have create some kind of cover; dig in or build a shell. You can make pretty good concrete with lunar soil and its good at keeping out the radiation too.

Mars already has an atmosphere. Check out the pictures on the web, the sky is caramel colored (sky=atmosphere) its just not dense enough. Terraforming would involve cranking up the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere until the atmosphere thickened enough to hold the heat in, then it could be seeded with plant material which would use the CO2 and make O2.